http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/09/144256

DON IMUS: So I watched the basketball game last night between a little bit of Rutgers and Tennessee, the women's final.

SID ROSENBERG: Yeah, Tennessee won last night, seventh championship for Pat Summitt, I-Man. They beat Rutgers by thirteen points.

DON IMUS: Some rough girls from Rutgers. Man, they've got tattoos and –

BERNARD McGUIRK: Some hardcore hos.

DON IMUS: That’s some nappy-headed hos there, I’m going to tell you that. Man, that’s some -- ooh! And the girls from Tennessee, they all look cute, you know, so -- like kind of like a -- I don’t know.

BERNARD McGUIRK: A Spike Lee thing.

DON IMUS: Yeah.

BERNARD McGUIRK: The Jigaboos versus the Wannabes –

DON IMUS: Yeah.

BERNARD McGUIRK: That movie that he had?

DON IMUS: Yeah, it was a tough –

CHARLES McCORD: Do the Right Thing. [The Spike Lee movie that dealt with light skin v/s dark skin – “nappy” hair v/s straighter hair was “School Daze” not “Do the Right Thing”]

BERNARD McGUIRK: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

DON IMUS: I don't know if I’d have wanted to beat Rutgers or not. But they did, right?

SID ROSENBERG: It was a tough watch. The more I look at Rutgers, they look exactly like the Toronto Raptors.

DON IMUS: Well, I guess, yeah.

LOU RUFFINO: Only tougher.

It is time for Imus to retire...

He is really trying to kiss some butt today, but alot of people in the media have been fired for less

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/columns/stor...&id=2830562

Rutgers women should be celebrated -- not insulted

By Mechelle Voepel, April 9, 2007

When someone says something so astonishingly cruel, so pathetic and wrongheaded and thoughtless as what Don Imus; his executive producer, Bernard McGuirk; and his sports announcer, Sid Rosenberg, said about the Rutgers women's basketball team, I'll admit my first reaction is a little violent. OK, more than a little.

I wish they would have to line up and face the wrath of everyone who knows these young women.

Yeah, I know, violence doesn't solve anything. And you can't use it to drive hatred and racism and sexism and meanness out of people. It's completely counterintuitive to even suggest it. OK, I'll try something less violent. How about all three get their mouths washed out with soap?

I'm not repeating the vile remarks made about the players here; you've probably heard them by now or can find them on the Internet. Or just take my word for how revolting they were.

Somehow, we've gotten to a place in our society where so-called "adults" think it's OK to publicly insult a group of young people whose sole transgression was they appeared on national television and apparently didn't meet some "appearance" standard these men had.

It also tells you something grotesque about our society that people will defend them. They will say, "It was only a joke; you just don't get it," or "Just don't listen!" or offer some amazingly vapid pretzel logic such as, "Well, rappers say stuff like this all the time! So why can't Don Imus say it?"

Bottom line: Nobody should say things like this. There are no excuses. It's not funny in any possible context. This wasn't satire, not even a lame attempt. It's not acceptable. It's not defensible. People who say things like this about other people should feel shame to the very core of their soul.

I don't know if Imus qualifies as "media," per se. Whether he does or not, he isn't alone in wallowing in this kind of garbage. The "media" -- print, radio and television -- keeps lowering its standards on decency. Racism is supposedly funny. So is misogyny. Mix them together and it's just downright hilarious, isn't it?

Imus has since apologized, and it's up to viewers/listeners to decide how sincere he is or whether they want to ever listen to or watch his show again.

Admittedly, there's a fear that even responding to things like this just gets them more publicity. And maybe for the shock jocks or shock writers out there, there isn't any shame or embarrassment left in them. In fact, maybe there never was any in them to begin with.

It also seems completely wrong to "defend" the Rutgers team, as if there might be anyone about whom these things could be said and it would not be offensive.

Still, I want to say this: These are some very fine young people whom the entire state of New Jersey and the world of college athletics can cite as what's right in our society today.

Here are just a few examples. Essence Carson is an accomplished pianist who also plays several other musical instruments, writes poetry, excels in the classroom and thinks every day of her late grandmother, who helped raise her and introduced her to the joy of music.

Matee Ajavon came to the United States from Liberia at age 6 and hopes one day to be a teacher.

"I think I have a lot to say," Ajavon said in an interview during the NCAA Tournament. "And maybe I can change the world."

Ajavon always tends to bring some "lightness" to her surroundings, which she enjoys doing.

"I like to put smiles on people's faces and brighten up other people's days, because you never know for sure what someone else is going through," she said. "They might just need a smile. I'm that kind of person."

Kia Vaughn has seven younger brothers, and maybe that's partially where she gets her great sense of humor. She kept reporters entertained with stories of how tough coach C. Vivian Stringer's practices were and the difficulties of doing without a locker room when Stringer made it off limits to her team for not performing up to her expectations.

Rutgers made an amazing run through the NCAA Tournament, all the way to the championship game. The Scarlet Knights were a joy to watch.

People who saw something different were looking through poisoned eyes and not viewing anything that was actually there. They were only seeing the reflection of their own cesspool of prejudice.

Mechelle Voepel of The Kansas City Star is a regular contributor to ESPN.com. She can be reached at mvoepel123@yahoo.com.


Essence Carson is an accomplished pianist who also plays several other musical instruments, writes poetry, excels in the classroom and thinks every day of her late grandmother, who helped raise her and introduced her to the joy of music.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/09/144256

"You Cannot Allow the Airwaves to Become the Toilet of Racist Language in America" - Sharpton Calls for Imus to Be Fired

Monday, April 9th, 2007

Calls are increasing for the dismissal of talk show host Don Imus over racist comments he made on his nationally syndicated program. Imus referred to the Rutgers women's basketball team as "nappy headed hos" on his show on Wednesday. We speak with the Rev. Al Sharpton, who is calling for Imus to be fired and with Maretta Short, president of the New Jersey chapter of the National Organization for Women.

"Imus in the Morning" is broadcast on WFAN which is owned by CBS and is syndicated on more than seventy radio stations and the television network MSNBC (which is owned by NBC, which, in turn, is owned by GE). Public condemnation intensified after Imus initially refused calls to apologize. Speaking on his radio show one day later, Imus said people shouldn't be offended by what he called: "some idiot comment meant to be amusing." As the controversy grew, Imus had an apparent change of heart, and finally apologized on Friday.

Several civil rights and media groups have rejected the apology and are calling for Imus to be removed. The Rainbow/PUSH coalition will hold protests today outside the offices of MSNBC's parent company NBC. The Rev. Jesse Jackson said: "If he has a right to use that platform to insult and degrade then we have a moral obligation to picket NBC and to protest." The NAACP and the National Association of Black Journalists have also joined the calls for Imus's firing and a boycott of his show.

REV. AL SHARPTON: I’m calling for Imus to be fired. I think that what he said was racist and sexist, and there must be accountability. If there is anything at all to FCC regulating and protecting the public, and if there's any kind of ethics at all among advertisers, they would immediately move to have him removed. This is no borderline amusing comment. This is as racist and sexist as you can get.

These are young women who have excelled academically to where they can attend Rutgers University, excelled athletically, and for them to be depicted as some “nappy-headed hos,” and we act like this is something funny, I think is ridiculous.

You must remember, Amy, we’re not talking about just some wayward shock jock. This is a radio announcer who presidential candidates and US senators and major network anchormen go on his show. This would be the mainstreaming of racism and sexism. We cannot tolerate that.

AMY GOODMAN: So what are you exactly calling for? I mean, Imus is broadcast in many places here. He's broadcast on WFAN here in New York, owned by CBS. It goes out syndicated around the country, and then MSNBC every morning broadcasts the show on television.

REV. AL SHARPTON: They should remove -- they should immediately terminate Imus. Certainly, there's enough in their contracts on moral clause alone to get out of these contracts. He has tried to meet -- I have said I would not meet with him. If he wanted to talk, he had to talk in public. He said, “Come on my show.” I said, “I would never try to get listeners to your show.” He said, “I’ll come to yours.”

I intend to tell him today what I’ve told everyone for the last three or four days: he ought to be fired. If he thinks he's a good guy, as he’s saying, and he was misunderstood, then he ought to say that, and I will say to him, “If you're a good guy, you'll resign and help to keep a precedent that this cannot be tolerated in America.” This is not personal. What he did was racist and sexist and should not be given a pass because he’s commercially successful.

AMY GOODMAN: Have you spoken with any of the executives of CBS or NBC?

REV. AL SHARPTON: Spoke to the people at NBC, and we intend to speak to the people at CBS. We intend to be having demonstrations in New York in front of CBS and NBC, if he is still there at the end of this week. And National Action Network and National Association of Black Journalists and all of us who began this together are reaching out to other groups to join us in this.

I will, again, make it clear when Mr. Imus, if he were to show up at the radio show today, that this is not about whether he's a good guy or whether he does charitable work, this is about accountability in media. If the airwaves can be used to, in any way, mainstream racism and sexism, it is an affront to all of us. We must resist it. We cannot have a precedent where people can say these kinds of things and walk away without any penalty.

AMY GOODMAN: And your response to Don Imus basically saying he's a good person who he made a bad comment, that he just made an idiotic statement?

REV. AL SHARPTON: You can go to any criminal court building today, and people that are charged with crimes say that every day. The problem is the crime, not the person. I don’t have to give a long list of why I think Imus is a good or bad person, even though he has said many offensive things before. I think this act must be punished. The issue is not his other activities. The issue is he said it. He clearly said it. You played the tape. Others have heard the tape. And whether or not FCC, that regulates media in this country, and advertisers are going to continue to support and allow this kind of language to be used, that's the issue here.

If he was a good guy, he would say, “I did something wrong. I want to step up and withdraw and help establish and continue the establishment of a precedent here that racism has no part on the airwaves.” Al Campanis, who was vice president of the Dodgers, said something that I think was even less offensive than Imus, and he had to leave the Dodgers. Jimmy “The Greek.” There's a precedent here, that we are now trying to act like in the 21st century that racist language, racist kind of commentary can be justified as humor and excused because the guy saying it is an alright guy. I don't think we can live by that kind of precedent.

AMY GOODMAN: The NABJ, Bryan Monroe, who's the president of the National Association of Black Journalists, also calling for Imus to be kicked out, raised other quotes calling Gwen Ifill -- I think his words were “a cleaning lady,” and describing William Rhoden of the New York Times as a “quota hire.” Those were quotes in an NABJ press release that Imus had made earlier, at other times.

REV. AL SHARPTON: Yeah, Imus has a record of this, from what he said about Gwen Ifill, what he said about Rhoden, what he said about others. But I don't think that anything has crossed the line more blatantly than what he said about these young ladies, and, again, both sexist and racist. And are we just going to continue with this and act like it's alright or, “OK, I can get away with just an apology”? I mean, Michael Richards, who just caused a firestorm with his nightclub act, was one matter, and I felt there that was totally wrong. I’ve condemned people in the black community for using the N-word and being offensive, and many of them were fired and suspended from radio jobs. Why would we take a different stand when it comes to Don Imus, because he deals with the political elite? I think that’s nonsense. I think he must be penalized. I think the precedent in media in this country is more important than the person of Don Imus or anyone else, in terms of their careers.

AMY GOODMAN: Are you taking this to the FCC, as well?

REV. AL SHARPTON: We have this morning sent a letter to the FCC, asking for them to take action, and we want to meet with the commissioners of the FCC. If the FCC cannot say to stations that this is not allowed, then what is their role as regulators? Are they saying to taxpayers that it's alright that racist, sexist remarks go out over the airwaves? That is not part of our regulation.

That’s not a question now of free speech. This is a question of where we regulate radio and regulate TV differently for different people. There are any number of deejays around the country, even black, that have been fired and suspended for saying things far less offensive, but offensive. And I have supported that, even friends of mine, because I think that you cannot allow the airwaves to become the toilet of racist language in America.

AMY GOODMAN: Reverend Al Sharpton, joining us on the phone from New York. He is going to be having Don Imus on his radio program at 1:00 EST. Maretta Short, also with us, president of the National Organization of Women, New Jersey. Maretta Short, what is NOW calling for?

MARETTA SHORT: Well, thank you, Amy. Yes, well, right now we're asking for people to go to our website and take action by sending messages to the general manager, Chuck Bortnick, of radio station WFAN, which produces Imus's show, and to Karen Mateo, communications vice president of CBS Radio, which owns WFAN, and to MSNBC television, which airs and promotes the show. Imus's message is racist to the core, is sexist to the core, and it’s totally unacceptable.

And our webpage is now.org, by the way. And on Wednesday at 2:30, there is going to be a protest and rally at Rutgers University at 350 Martin Luther King Boulevard. So those who are asking, “What is Al doing about it? What is NOW doing about it? What is NAACP doing about it?” you have work to do. You are NOW, you are the NAACP, and it's time for us to move on this. Imus's actions are totally unacceptable.

AMY GOODMAN: Maretta Short, you are in New Jersey. Have you spoken to people at Rutgers?

MARETTA SHORT: Well, right now, I’m waiting for call backs. I have put out calls as -- last night, and I’m waiting for the calls to be returned. Right now, I’m reaching out to some members of the Rutgers basketball team. I have not spoken to any of them as of yet, but I certainly am looking forward to it.

AMY GOODMAN: And has NOW met with General Electric, which owns NBC, or NBC officials or MSNBC or WFAN or CBS, which owns FAN?

MARETTA SHORT: Yeah, that is a very good question, and I want to get to that later. But I think that it's important to say, about these apologies that Imus is supposed to make, there's certain things you can't apologize for, Amy. You can apologize for stepping on somebody's toe, bumping into them, but you cannot apologize for the filth that has come out of his mouth. I mean, I think it's utterly, utterly disgusting, and it targets a certain audience that nobody's focusing on: the white male beer-drinking eighteen to thirty-eighters. What makes them feel it's OK to do that? So now, his show is creating an audience that thinks that talking in that way and insulting people and spewing out that hatred is acceptable. It is totally unacceptable.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you both for being with us. We'll certainly report on what happens today, the latest developments, what Don Imus says on Reverend Al Sharpton's radio show and what the plans of the corporate networks are in dealing with Imus in the Morning.

MARIETTA SHORT: OK, well, Amy, thank you very much. And I just want to say that this is coming to us on the thirty-fifth year of the anniversary of the Title IX, when women have been given the equal opportunities in education, including sports, whereas years ago we just did not have that sort of thing. And, by the way, it was introduced by a woman of color, Patsy Mink of Hawaii, and I think that's a very important point to bring out, as well.

AMY GOODMAN: Thank you very much.

REV. AL SHARPTON: I agree. And we certainly support the rally at Rutgers, and we'll be doing rallies at CBS and NBC on Friday and Saturday of this week. And we'll keep you informed, Amy.

AMY GOODMAN: Thanks very much, Reverend Al Sharpton and Maretta Short, the president of New Jersey NOW.

The Rutgers Women's Basketball Team (AA players)

Matee Ajavon (from Nigeria)

Essence Carson

Dee Dee Jernigan

Rashidat Junaid

Myia McCurdy

Epiphanny Prince

Judith Ray

Kia Vaugh

http://www.scarletknights.com/basketball-women/

University of Tennessee Women's Basketball Team



Alex Fuller

Nicky Anosike

Candace Parker

Dominique Redding

Shannon Bobbitt

Alexis Hornbuckle

Alberta Auguste

http://utladyvols.cstv.com/sports/w-baskbl...baskbl-mtt.html

Okay.. I'm probably going to need an asbestos suit for my thoughts on the Imus debacle.

I've always been a less than tepid fan of his on the show. What he said and how he said it is wrong on so many levels that they don't even need to be repeated here.

But unlike some of the more recent 'outbursts' of a comedian and few others, if you look into their entire lives it leaves you with nothing as to the heart of the man.

Imus & Deirdre have the soul and heart that is in complete contrast to what he foolishly said. Their Ranch has been a haven for children of any and all colors, often times donating their own money to fly the child and family to the Ranch. The more private work they do, I believe is more of a reflection of Imus as a whole - than the garbage he spewed over the airwaves.

If anyone ever has had or gets a chance to visit the Imus ranch - it's like watching a different person. Those children love him and his wife - all colors of children, and they dote on all the children equally.

I think his mouth took him where his heart and soul really aren't - and I'm not sure how he'll ever repair it.

If he ends up losing the show, I pray that it will not change the charitable work that both he and wife do - not just at the Ranch but for our Military and other people as well.

I have been listening to Don Imus every morning with my cup of coffee in hand trying to wake up so I can get myself moving and ready for kindergarten for a long long time. I personally like the program. Many times I have wondered to myself, "How do they get away with that?" But they have. Until now.

I read the script. Then I looked at the faces of each of the beautiful young women Robin posted above on this topic. A feeling of sadness overcame me and I now feel like a parent who would like to see Don Imus and the others who participated on that piece personally apologize to all of those girls in person in front of the television viewing audience. And then they should beg their forgiveness.

What an idiot! Sometimes, the bigger they are, the harder they fall. Shame on you Mr. Imus!

KT

Imus is supposedly going to meet with the members of the team in person. To what avail, I have no idea.

I really don't know anything about Imus or his charitable work. Here's how Al Sharpton addressed the point you raise:



I know terminating Imus would be a harsh penalty, but I must say I am sick of people like Imus having a forum on the public airwaves to spew this sh%t. I am sick of the Ann Coulter's and Rush Limbaugh's of media. I personally would like to see the culture take a firm stand against this kind of behavior and stop giving it an apology pass. IMO excusing this kind of conduct is part of what is wrong with the country today and also reflects the base, course, unenlightened state of American political discourse.

I don't think people realize the degree of damage racism and sexism does to the individual victim and the society at large. I'm less inclined to sympathize with Imus' good works toward little children because his venon in this instance was directed at young women -- college girls -- still at an age when they are trying to figure out who they are and how they will navigate their way in the world. I've had it with grown-ass men and women behaving like dumb-ass schoolyard bullies. I think it's time to require a higher standard of those we entrust with the public airwaves.

I don't think Martha Stewart posed any real threat to public safety when she was sent to jail. Nevertheless she had to suffer the consequences of a momentary lapse in judgment. I bet many of the same people who would give Imus a pass in this instance, can't muster a similar level of sympathy or understanding for Mexicans who come here to work illegally in an effort to escape hand to mouth, dirt floor poverty at home. An illegal Mexican worker could have been here working for the past 30 years, never missed a day of work, even have American born children along with other solid roots in the country and those same Imus' sympathizers would have one response for that illegal Mexican worker -- get out.

Far too many women and girls in this culture already have issues associated with physical appearance and standards of "beauty." We need the grown-ups in the culture to help young people see through all that bullsh#t -- not help reinforce it. I won't even try to discuss the racial component of Imus' remarks.

Imus needs to apologize in a "meaningful way" and then he must do something that will show his viewers where his heart is at when it comes to this issue. He does a lot of satire and fooling around on his show along with his crew and frequent guests. They take jabs at each other and it seems to be all for entertainment. It is an adult show and it occasionally crosses the line of good judgement and good taste. It is not a show for the faint of heart and that is what wakes me up along with my coffee. I would be so sad if Imus was put off the air. If he does the right thing and makes things right, I can forgive him. Can you forgive in your heart Robin?

KT :valentine:

I can forgive him and I'm sure the girls from Rutgers will forgive him if he personally apologizes to them (which I think he should do).

What's of equal concern to me is keeping this kind of stupidity off the airwaves. I want Imus to get it. If he gets it then there's some assurance that it won't happen again. People like him and his cohorts on the show need to genuinely understand that their comments were neither funny nor in any way acceptable -- particularly as directed toward a group of young women. Imus looks like he's about 70. It's ridiculous for someone as old as he is to be crumbing on a bunch of young girls. If he gets it that will be a good thing.

Don't ask me.

Why and what possible difference would it make if Robin forgives Imus. Why should she?

Why is it always the liberals who have to forgive the other side for their racist statements?

When one racist statement, once forgiven, leads to 20 others.

A statement made in private helped sabatoge Jesse Jackson's campaign and the NY Primary back then, when a victory might have led Rev. Jackson to the nomination or at least the VP after Dukakis got it
And most people on this board when reminded of the fact have no forgivness for Rev. Jackson...

AND THAT WAS A PRIVATE STATEMENT....IMUS MADE A PUBLIC STATEMENT

It appears there is always a double standard for blacks and asians and what is allowed to be said.
If say, an anti-Jewish remark and is made by any non-Jewish person, you never hear the end of it

And WHO FORGAVE DIXIE CHICKS AND BILL MAHRE for their statements?
I don't recall the rightwing forgiving them

And 1000s of other examples

I have listened at times to Imus, AND I have terra- donated to his charities btw...

BUT none have that has anything to do with the way he put down those most beautiful, beautiful women on the team...it is damage done...
who makes fun of children anyhow (and they still are children you know???) Who wants to publicly humiliate someone like that?

And they will most likely be gracious, loving people WHO WILL FORGIVE, but you know what, it doesn't matter, the damage was done
and all the racists just chuckle

An example needs to be set somewhere, and it appears the public is angry with this crap, and Imus is the one in the wrong place because of his B-I-G MOUTH

And of course, he will reap the publicity of all of this...and just donating some money or something isn't the answer either...

A little common decency is what is needed

(and this man who looks as old as Keith Richard has the right to talk about people's looks???)

What he needs is someone to do the old

SHAME
SHAME
SHAME

in public with him

I must say I do agree with the points Graham makes in this post.

CNN email just came in:

"-- Controversial radio host Don Imus will be suspended for two weeks starting Monday April 16, NBC reports."

graham, when I asked Robin if she could forgive Don Imus if he did the right thing and apologized in a "meaningful way" to those beautiful young women personally on television and really mean it from his heart, I was sniffing for information and also wondering if it could be possible that we could all learn from this example.

First, I wanted to find out more about Robin. Robin put those pictures of the girls up on this post. If she had not put the pictures up and I had not seen them, I would not have felt the sadness and anger that I felt over this issue. And what you say about them being children is correct graham. They are younger than my daughter so I felt that parental protectiveness as I was looking at them. That changed my thinking because they had faces. They were young. They were beautiful human beings.

I am hoping that it may be possible to make this terrible mistake into a learning example so that others do not continue making these horrible and hurtful remarks about our kids.

KT

I feel this was fair. We all need to take a step back and reflect on the insults we hurl at others.

KT

That seems a bit half-assed to me. Either keep him, let him go or come up with some other kind of creative solution that actually addresses the whole controversy. What is a two week suspension? That will probably be like a vacation for him. It's not like this is some kind of sports team where a suspension is actually going to serve as some kind penalty to him.

I think the 2 week suspension might work, canned seems like an awfully strong response, how about just sending him to Singapore to get caned? Wouldn't a spanking be appropriate?

Maybe we could discuss some creative solutions to go with his two week suspension. I'd like to see him come back and do some shows dealing with topics like this one. I think he and his people have enough to do that and still be funny. What are your thoughts Robin?

(I don't know graham, you don't seem to like the word forgive and think people like me who do so are disingenuous.)

KT

It appears the suspension is just the MSNBC simulcast part of his show

(so that he still has his radio show those 2 weeks, it just won't be simulcasted on MSNBC)

unless I read the thing wrong

Spanking is out, and time-outs are in tomhye.

Nothing to do with you KT...and no I don't think you are disingenuous, it just always seems like to just forgive sweeps it (as other things)
under the rug, only to re-appear another day down the road
(Willie Nelson song "Forgiving you was easy, forgetting seems to take a long, long time" seems to apply)

Racist comments, and comments about children and women and looks too for that matter, should just not happen in the first place

That Imus uses those comments to play to his audience means the audience does not mind hearing these things.
That is what the problem is.

Because if his fans were so upset, he would not have an audience, and he would then naturally be cancelled.

So it appears these type of statements are said for that exact reason, and they just figure no one will pay attention and get mad

Playing the lowest common denominator cards to keep the publicity flowing

I wonder if he would have said it if Shakeel O'Neal had been sitting in the studio with him? Food for thought.

My guess is he would, but his apology might be arder to understand.

I like KT's suggestion of Imus doing some broadcasts centered on media responsibility, etc.

And the second email from CNN reads:
" NBC is suspending its broadcast of the syndicated 'Imus in the Morning' radio program for two weeks starting Monday April 16 after host Don Imus made comments criticized as racist."
So I think Graham is right about the radio program going on as usual.

I like Robin's take: this media BS must stop. Enough already.
And I suspect that Imus may have problems in the future getting the political VIPs to call into his show.



(I am traveling and having wi-fi difficulties, so my posts may not make sense or be in sync with the conversation- sorry.)

Do you like comedy graham? I love comedy. I have to admit to you though that sometimes the funniest stuff is the kind of things that you feel ashamed to laugh about. Like Seinfeld, and Borat, and some of those old Vegas insult comedians material. But that is me. Why do we sometimes laugh when someone falls down?

KT

You mean it would be a bunch of garbled shouts along with the sound of furniture breaking?

That might precede the apology, people who have their jaw wired shut tend not to speak clearly.

my favorite tv show is Get Smart, and Mel Brooks is one the greats.
Another time, another era when things weren't politically correct all the time
However, children were always off limits and those comics also put down themselves and their own race just as often
AND
people in 2007 know the rules have changed. And you just don't say things anymore because people do get hurt.


But I think the major point is, Imus was speaking to his audience, a good portion of whom believe the things he says.
And the way it degrades people.
Howard Stern too.

Imus is political, and he has made his name on being political.

In that context he knows the rules, and he overstepped them.
Whereas most people found Michael Richards washed up,hasbeen and were flabbergasted over them, Imus has at least half his fans
defending him (much like Rush and Sean and OReilley fans always defend them)

But actually, that is all besides the point...because this was just racist and crude and uncalled for and 2 weeks suspension of one part of his show, is like the people that rush into a clinic...meaningless
I don't really know what Imus could do to actually make up for it so that it actually hits him to not do it again
How do you prevent something that may come back to these women years from now on a down day?
And how do you more importantly change the view of the fans of this type of thing? Those defending him who think he did nothing wrong?

Do (I am sure you KT do know this) but in general, to all,think about this aspect
do you know how many college age kids commit suicide because of all the pressures around them?
What if down the road, on a really bad day, these comments cause something like that?
Or something like Columbine?
Kids can't take as much as people think they can take

Okay - why ask for an apology if none are acceptable. If it's off with his head, then lop it off and be done with it. Personally, if I were Imus and felt I had apologized in the best manner I could - would just get off the air and go enjoy my life.

And, I'll start listening to Sharpton about this - when he starts a campaign as vocal as this one to get the Gangster Rap that absolutely degrades these very same women off the air waves. Good manners start at home, everyones home.

I agree with that. Maybe when Imus or some black male starts jumpin' bad about women, black or otherwise there should be a response from a strong woman of that particular race. I'll ask the same question as before slightly modified. "I wonder if Imus would have said what he said if Muhammed Ali's Daughter was sitting next to him in the studio?"

Did you ever read the Heinlein book, Stranger in a Strange Land, Gracie? In it, Heinlein talks quite a bit about how all humor is based in pain or discomfort of some sort, from the slapstick of somebody slipping on a banana peel to the more sophisiticated insult humor. Mr. Peg likes to quote the following: "Tragedy is when I get a hangnail. Comedy is when you fall down a manhole and die!"

I found this Don Imus apology clip on YouTube worth watching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaGnu0l8shs

Last questions first - Laila Ali doesn't need her father, she's quite capable of rapping Imus on the nose all by herself. I do believe the conversation might have still gone the same way as it did, but would have been slapped down before it went so far.

And I'm all for Women or Men of whatever race standing up in defense of anyone who is being slapped down, especially when it involves ratings and money. Hence why I say that the gangster rap, that the kids haul with them everywhere needs to go, too. They know to leave it outside before entering my home. When my son was younger he didn't get it - he does now.

Three of the five of the girls I found on MySpace had gangsta music blasting.. it seems like these well educated, beautiful young women could be those strong women - the ones to set an example for youngsters.. but that's just a thought.

I agree she doesn't need her father to handle that fool. I saw her on Dancing with the Stars. Women do need to stand up for themselves, and they will find many men supporting them when they do. Men of all colors realize deep down that women are to be respected. Only overgrown boys do not.

I agree with this and with a few other sentiments expressed. This morning I watched a man who literally was seeing his life slip through his hands. I'm not sure he will be around. Forgiveness isn't part of our language anymore.

but this is the old Clinton/Bush thing

You lay the blame on the other side and say they do it too

That is wrong IMHO of course

Wrong is wrong

However, gangster rap
What about gangster rapper Johnny Cash
who wrote and sang

"I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die"
That was everyone's favorite legend advocating killing someone


Imus knew what he was doing, and he was playing to his audience, who believes the things Imus says

And what does someone's looks have to do with anything anyhow, except to forward hatred?

As for rap, and so called gangster rappers-
Ice Cube started his career as one of the baddest of the bad
Yet now he makes family comedy movies (and his latest I really enjoyed although it like all family movies didn't get great reviews)Are we Done yet I think is the title

And Barbershop was one of the best movies of a few years ago

And the great rappers are not inventing situations, they are just "reporting" on the way it is...

Turning this around to Al does not make what Imus said any better

You're a smart man. You know very well what I'm talking about in regards to the music. I need say no more.