I have kept Dr. Griffin apprised of all that has transpired, as it transpired. I indicated to him that the thread in question had been deleted. I indicated to him that an apology had been posted and sent privately, and I indicated my suggestion that that apology be sent privately through back channels. (Last night, I also asked him to let me know if and when that ocurs.)
I also let him know of the request made to me that his response be deleted; he disagreed, and asked me to keep it up.
The thread in question was allowed to stay on the board in the Café, as the top thread in the queue, for many days. How many hits did it have before it was deleted?
The responses to the thread were removed within hours.
As I am sure you are aware, my blog entry -- with my own response and his -- was deleted, by whom I do not know (it was not me), or for what reason (and without the courtesy of comunication or explanation). It is clear that there is some combination of minds and voices here that has the power to exercise what gets said here by some, but doesn't have the mindfulness and discretion to control what others say.
There seems to be a demonstrated desire for frivolity and baseless, egregious insult in favor of the free flow of information and open political discourse. Sides have been taken in the great national debate, and in the information war. The Bush Administration and its supporters have engaged in censorship, intimidation and propaganda, and have inordinate amounts of money with which to craft and shape their message. One voice was attacked, and another was deleted. CGCS seems to be coming down in favor of "groupthink".
The deletion of the thread and the responses by me and Dr.Griffin are an attempt to make the matter go away, an attempt to silence any response to commentary, as well as an affront to others including the "lurkers" who read or responded to the thread.
But the matter isn't going away yet…
As noted, many have read the thread....I'm surethat you allappreciate that a link can be dropped into an e-mail and spread like wildfire within minutes. Posting here is like sending an e-mail to the world.
Some seem to think that they are private individuals in a closed, insular world here at CGCS, but we on a public discussion board that can be read by anyone in the world with Internet access. Furthermore, this and other similar web sites are surveyed by automated technical means to "extract" information and post it elsewhere, or cache it, or assimilate it into other collections, data bases, etc. They do not need your permission to do so. One example of this can be found here: http://celebrities.boardreader.com/pts/Mel...on.html?c=14351 .
I have been asked to delete my cross-postings to other web sites.. Has Dr. Griffin been asked?
The folks at http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/ have been asked to do the same. I'd be interested in their response and will monitor their actions. Perhaps James B. (who said "Now I actually agree with Griffin that the attacks are baseless ad hominem attacks.") will be simpatico with the request. Dr. Griffin, on the other hand, has written a now-expanded response that he has arranged to post elsewhere; it includes the full text of your opening post. He is an independent individual with his own perceptions. I don't (nor could I) attempt to control or influence what he does, or what he says. However, since CGCS has deemed it necessary to delete it from their web site, my own response is posted there as well. See http://www.911blogger.com/node/8522
Given that the allegations have (by no action of mine or Dr. Griffin's) been read, copied and transmitted by others, the point is not moot (at least until Dr. Griffin says it is).
It has been noted that "... conversation within the digital medium ... persists. Instantiated as text, whether typed in or spoken and recognized, persistence expands conversation beyond those within earshot, rendering it accessible to those in other places and at later times.... persistent conversations may be searched, browsed, replayed, annotated, visualized, restructured, and recontextualized, with what are likely to be profound impacts on personal, social, and institutional practices.”The question was asked directly within the thread and in other ways if the claims made in the thread were satirical, if they were actually believed, and positive responses came back. This was affirmed again by me with their author as a last step before the posting of my response and that of Dr. Griffin.
“Social translucence: An Approach to Designing Systems That Support Social Processes”,
Thomas Erickson and Wendy Kellogg, IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
( http://www.pliant.org/personal/Tom_Erickson/st_TOCHI.html ).
Once a serious challenge to the thread was launched, the entire old thread was delated and a new one started with the claim that it was satire. Then, an attempt was made to cover tracks and beat feet, to run home crying to mommy and somehow enable the deletion of the responses, rather than acknowledging and answering those responses, or defending or support the claims. I could characterize that with a single 9-letter word, but discretion and decorum prevent me from doing so.
And yet, on the other hand, based on communication to which I am not party, my blog entry has been deleted without explanation or the courtesy of even notification, and the "movement" to have members ostracized here continues with renewed fervor. (See, for example, Sister Pegatha's thread.)
Do you think that you are silencing Dr. Griffin or hurting the debate about 9/11? Do you no tunderstand that the 9/11 truth movement is international in nature and comprised of milllions of people?
Do you think that you are silencing me? It is entirely possible that I will be run out of CGCS.
The claim has been made that "we" are our own worst enemies, but the kinds of things that have transpired here (and elsewhere) only embolden and empower us.
It's not a game, even when you think you are having fun at others' expense.
It’s been said that the deletions that have occurred and been requested are for the sake of Dr. Griffin, who doesn't deserve to have false rumors spread about him.
This should have been thought of earlier. This is closing the barn door after the horse got away.
Perhaps the members and administrators and moderators here at CGCS ought to assemble a petition and an apology to Dr. Griffin. As he is a theologian, he may be forgiving.
Perhaps the members and administrators and moderators here at CGCS should pause and re-think what is going on here. It's been said to me in the past by the resident nun that, if I didn't like it here, I could go somewhere else. Clearly, as is their right, some here go "offshore" to have their own private discussions, so that option is being exercised in many ways.
No doubt something will come along next week to allow all of us to forget about this.
What will come along in the future to let all the people grieving as a result of 9/11 forget about the loss of their loved ones? Or will we also toss away the direct victims of 9/11, the indirect victim responders who will die in even larger numbers, the thousands of soldiers who will give or have given life and limb and mind to the disastrous wars started in the name of 9/11, the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, and who else yet to come?
Is life that unprecious that we can allow others and ourselves to play with it at will?
