dante
Nov 29 2004, 06:22 AM
If we do not have a draft and the military needs to meet a "quota" ........this is how they do it.
Who wants a volunteer military and why? I think having an all volunteer and then preselecting recruitment just screws the poor and working class,..again. They fight and die and "the beat goes on." Now I remember why the "men" in charge like the "volunteer" military so much. Who among them has any access to powe? For the most part, their parents don't vote or contribute $$$$ to campaigns and neither do they. The "leaders" who claim to represent and the movements that profess representing the interests of these folks do nothing, because if the poor and working class don't volunteer, the sons and daughters of privilege will be drafted.QUOTE
POMFRET, Md. -- Military recruiting saturates life at McDonough High, a working-class public school where recruiters chaperon dances, students in a junior ROTC class learn drills from a retired sergeant major in uniform, and every prospect gets called at least six times by the Army alone.
Recruiters distribute key chains, mugs, and military brochures at McDonough's cafeteria. They are trained to target students at schools like McDonough across the country, using techniques such as identifying a popular student -- whom they call a "center of influence" -- and conspicuously talking to that student in front of others.
Meanwhile, at McLean High, a more affluent public school 37 miles away in Virginia, there is no military chaperoning and no ROTC class. Recruiters adhere to a strict quota of visits, lining up behind dozens of colleges. In the guidance office, military brochures are dwarfed by college pennants. Posters promote life amid ivy-covered walls, not in the cockpits of fighter jets.
Students from McDonough are as much as six times more likely than those from McLean to join the military, a disparity that is replicated elsewhere. A survey of the military's recruitment system found that the Defense Department zeroes in on schools where students are perceived to be more likely to join up, while making far less effort at schools where students are steered toward college.
Now, as pressure mounts on recruiters to find 180,000 volunteers amid casualty counts from Iraq and Afghanistan that have surpassed 1,300 dead and 10,000 wounded, the fairness of the system by which the nation persuades young people to take on the burden of national defense is coming under increasing scrutiny.
The Globe inquiry found that recruiters target certain schools and students for heavy recruitment, and then won't give up easily: Officers call the chosen students repeatedly, tracking their responses in a computer program the Army calls "the Blueprint." Eligible students are hit with a blitz of mailings and home visits. Recruiters go hunting wherever teens from a targeted area hang out, following them to sporting events, shopping malls, and convenience stores.
Officers are trained to analyze students and make a pitch according to what will strike a motivational chord -- job training, college scholarships, adventure, signing bonuses, or service to country. A high-school recruiting manual describes the Army as "a product which can be sold."
The manual offers tips for recruiters to make themselves "indispensable" to schools; suggests tactics such as reading yearbooks to "mysteriously" know something about a prospect to spark the student's curiosity; notes that "it is only natural for people to resist" and suggests ways to turn aside objections; and lists techniques for closing the deal, such as the "challenge close":
"This closing method works best with younger men," the manual reads. "You must be careful how you use this one. You must be on friendly terms with your prospect, or this may backfire. It works like this: When you find difficulty in closing, particularly when your prospect's interest seems to be waning, challenge his ego by suggesting that basic training may be too difficult for him and he might not be able to pass it. Then, if he accepts your challenge, you will be a giant step closer to getting him to enlist."
source........ <_<
periwinkle
Nov 29 2004, 06:39 AM
If a draft is instituted, here's what I propose. We draft on the basis of wealth and power, starting with the wealthiest who have relatives in the government. No deferments except in the most dire circumstances, for example: missing extremities, severe retardation, life-threatening communicable disease. Oh, yeah, and we should draft up to age 50. What the heck, those Congressmen have plenty of experience doing paperwork. They can serve. I figure if these people are going to decide the fate of poor kids, they need to step up to the plate themselves. Jenna? Barbara? Pack you camis.
gmanders777
Nov 29 2004, 07:19 AM
I think you could probably file a class action suit against the military based on the
article and some real data backing up the story. It targets and makes the recruiting
process selective, segregates rich from poor, and probably with the right attorney
(Edwards) could make them change the way they recruit.
The give aways should be stopped. It is tax payer dollars and a waste. Also why
do the Marines need a civilian Hummer all tricked out $94,000 for re-cruiting?
Why not use a real battle ready hummer and put the rest of the money into
vehicle armor? Why are they trying to compete with corp america? There pay sure
doesn't
Also at any whim congress changes the retirement benefits and pay. Ask my father
25 years military and 26 years civil service. He gets screwed from them all the time!
belgiangoth
Nov 29 2004, 07:20 AM
Well, if the military is so bad for those kids, why do they all vote republican?
(no, it's not rehtorical, why do they vote for wars and money for the military over money for education?)
FormerCIA
Nov 29 2004, 07:42 AM
QUOTE(gmanders777 @ Nov 29 2004, 08:19 AM)
I think you could probably file a class action suit against the military based on the
article and some real data backing up the story. It targets and makes the recruiting
process selective, segregates rich from poor, and probably with the right attorney
(Edwards) could make them change the way they recruit.
The give aways should be stopped. It is tax payer dollars and a waste. Also why
do the Marines need a civilian Hummer all tricked out $94,000 for re-cruiting?
Why not use a real battle ready hummer and put the rest of the money into
vehicle armor? Why are they trying to compete with corp america? There pay sure
doesn't
Also at any whim congress changes the retirement benefits and pay. Ask my father
25 years military and 26 years civil service. He gets screwed from them all the time!
While they are at it, why don't they show the kids what a HUMMER looks like after running over a heavy anti-tank mine.
As long as the economy is in bad shape, they will always have recruits. Another reason the Administration seems to want to sabotage the economy. Good economy= Jobs, Bad economy=Recruits
floyd&shigeko
Nov 29 2004, 08:11 AM
Makes one sad and mad to read this article on recruitment policies; getting them changed likely isn't easy to do. Hard to say that these practices are illegal but as a minimum they seem very unethical. Kids in high school are not all that hard to manipulate when such targeted strategies and pressures are utilized by the recruiters.
ETC1966
Dec 4 2004, 12:32 PM
The enlisted ranks are filled with a broad spectrum of people from all races, colors, creeds, and financial/social status. The above article and comments reflect a complete misunderstanding of that, and are quite frankly, VERY OFFENSIVE, particularly Dante’s, “ I think having an all volunteer and then preselecting recruitment just screws the poor and working class... again”.
We volunteered to serve our country. No one forced us to sign up. They don’t even let judges do that “join the Army or go to jail” BS anymore. Recruiters are not always completely forthright with every detail of military service. There are some tasks we have to do that suck, but there are also opportunities that we’d never have had as a civilian. A lot of people use the military as a stepping-stone to bettering themselves.
Military recruiters are like fishermen. They go where their prospects for success are highest. If a high school is in a very wealthy neighborhood, chances are higher that the kids that don’t get scholarships are going to have their colleges paid for them, or maybe they’re going to work for the family business. As stated in the article, the recruiters don’t ignore them, but their efforts are focused on where they can do the most good. There are plenty of “rich” kids who join to rebel against their parents’ plans for their futures.
I joined the Navy while I was in high school to avoid being pressured into following in my father’s steps and joining the CIA (believe it or not, I don’t care). I was intending to get a NROTC scholarship, but a series of unfortunate events prevented that, but ultimately I think it was for the better.
Mugs and key chains are advertisements, not bribes. If kid wears a free t-shirt that the recruiter gave him it is going to be seen by a lot of prospects.
We certainly don’t have an all-volunteer military for the sake of avoid drafting rich people’s kids. America is about freedom.
PaineInTheArse
Dec 4 2004, 12:34 PM
VOLUNTEER TO SERVE ON A LOCAL BOARD.
I posted qualification and application criteria a few days ago. Will try to Find/Bump.
Marine
Dec 4 2004, 02:37 PM
QUOTE(dante @ Nov 29 2004, 06:22 AM)
If we do not have a draft and the military needs to meet a "quota" ........this is how they do it.
Who wants a volunteer military and why? I think having an all volunteer and then preselecting recruitment just screws the poor and working class,..again. They fight and die and "the beat goes on." Now I remember why the "men" in charge like the "volunteer" military so much. Who among them has any access to powe? For the most part, their parents don't vote or contribute $$$$ to campaigns and neither do they. The "leaders" who claim to represent and the movements that profess representing the interests of these folks do nothing, because if the poor and working class don't volunteer, the sons and daughters of privilege will be drafted.source........ <_<
Just poor kids volunteer for the military is what happens?
Wait a second, didn't John Kerry volunteer? Didn't Al Gore volunteer?
mtnmagic
Dec 4 2004, 03:08 PM
My son is 15 1/2 years old and a sophomore in high school. We are white middle class (and sinking). He carries a 4.20GPA and goes to college at night because he desparately wants to get into a good college. While he is also active in sports, he is not a stand out. Despite all of his efforts, the exploding cost of tuition, the lack
of available high school counselors and career development programs for guidance, and scholorships have made him begin to look to the military more and more as a viable alternative for training and college opportunities. He and his friends are
doing more and more of this on their own. There have been no overt recruiting
efforts at their High School. The thought of thousands and thousands of $'s in student loans is quite daunting to him. He also is concerned about placing me in a huge amount of debt. Patriotism does play a part also, even though he disagrees with the military involvement in Iraq, he believes as
through out history, the young must step up to the plate and do their duty.
The kid deserves a full ride to Stanford (no, I'm not saying this just because I'm
a proud mom). His unbelievable disclipline, quest for knowlege and desire to better himself educationally has been there since kindergarten. Stanford or Michigan (his first choice) is not a reality.
As a mother, I'm very torn. But the more info he gathers (on his own without pressure, the more I understand why he is considering the military....I guess
what I am saying in this long winded post is Today really is not yesterday's military
anymore. Thousands of dollars in educational opportunities, state of the art training are going to trump promotional key chains anyday.
david sobien
Dec 4 2004, 08:49 PM
Community College and then a state school is a lot better than getting your son's arms and legs blown off. Get real. What is this stuff about " If I cant get into Harvard I am going to join the Army". There is more out there then you think. Look around.
ETC1966
Dec 6 2004, 08:20 AM
QUOTE(david sobien @ Dec 4 2004, 07:49 PM)
Community College and then a state school is a lot better than getting your son's arms and legs blown off. Get real. What is this stuff about " If I cant get into Harvard I am going to join the Army". There is more out there then you think. Look around.
You talk like that is so common. Yes, some people are getting hurt, and even dieing in Iraq and Afghanistan, but contrary to the doomsayers, it’s a tiny fraction of our forces, not to downplay the tragedy to the individual and his family, of course. In life we take chances, and we must weigh the benefits against the risks. Some things are worth risking life and limb for. Many Americans see FREEDOM as one of those things, and some step forward and place their live on the line to protect what they believe in. No one joins to get his or her limbs blown off, and we do everything in our power to avoid that grisly outcome.
There’s also the Air Force & Coast Guard & Navy out there.
PaineInTheArse
Dec 6 2004, 08:47 AM
The parents of the chidren at the first school... "Military recruiting saturates life at McDonough High, a working-class public school where recruiters chaperon dances, students in a junior ROTC class learn drills from a retired sergeant major in uniform, and every prospect gets called at least six times by the Army alone." ...need to direct their school board not to allow in recruiters from any organization that discriminates on the basis of age, sex, race, national origin or sexual orientation. When they conform to those standards, they can recruit.
ETC1966
Dec 6 2004, 04:11 PM
QUOTE(PaineInTheArse @ Dec 6 2004, 07:47 AM)
The parents of the chidren at the first school... "Military recruiting saturates life at McDonough High, a working-class public school where recruiters chaperon dances, students in a junior ROTC class learn drills from a retired sergeant major in uniform, and every prospect gets called at least six times by the Army alone." ...need to direct their school board not to allow in recruiters from any organization that discriminates on the basis of age, sex, race, national origin or sexual orientation. When they conform to those standards, they can recruit.
So, the real issue you have isn't that they're recruiting, but that the military doesn't approve of homosexual behavior?
underbear1
Dec 6 2004, 09:36 PM
I would prefer a two year mandatory service to the nation, which may be military, or civil service. In exchange two years of college would be paid for by the government. There would be no deferments, and for gays and lesbians there would be NO don't ask, don't tell sh*t!
ETC1966
Dec 7 2004, 02:27 AM
QUOTE(underbear1 @ Dec 6 2004, 08:36 PM)
I would prefer a two year mandatory service to the nation, which may be military, or civil service. In exchange two years of college would be paid for by the government. There would be no deferments, and for gays and lesbians there would be NO don't ask, don't tell sh*t!
Universal service would be incredibly expensive.
You might not realize it, because of the way the news portrays things, but today's 1.4 million active duty military service members comprise less than 1% of the US adult population, and most of the DoD's 3.3 million employees are civilians & reservists.
It might seem like a good way to make people take some responsibility and get a better sense of ownership of their country, but it’d be a lot more complicated than it looks for a myriad of reasons:
1) Would require a huge bureaucracy to manage so many people ($$$)
2) Federal paychecks for all your new “recruits”/conscripts ($$$)
3) Impact on employers losing everyone in that age range ($$$)
4) Not enough colleges already & this would make demand skyrocket, thus ($$$)
5) Dilute the value of college degrees already earned
6) Force military to abandon standards (most civilians are not within basic minimums)
7) Forcing gays & lesbians to join the military would be cruel & unusual punishment. Or is this some sort of lame plan for getting a bunch of them killed?
The most sensible thing the federal government could do is demand that part of the money that they are already putting into public education must actually go toward teaching what the US Constitution actually says, not what some people think it says, but verbatim what it says. Of course, then the kids might realize that the US Constitution doesn’t say anything about federal funding of education.
:D
Another thing they could do is stop trying to infringe on people’s 2nd Amendment gun rights and actually support the formation of local militias as the founders intended. Every able-bodied, law-abiding adult should be issued an M-16A1 and trained to use it. The penalty for a criminal stealing, or a convicted felon even being in possession of someone else's M-16 would be quite severe.
random_dana
Dec 11 2004, 09:21 PM
There'd be a lot more rich people in the military if the leftist elite types hadn't made a fairly successful systematic effort to eliminate ROTC detachments at most of the more prestigous universities.
Let's be honest, if you've already got the means to get a college education (e.g., you've got the money or you're capable of earning a ROTC scholarship), you're far more likely to want to enter as an officer than as an elisted person. There are exceptions, certainly, but on average that's the way it works.
As an aside, when my school's ROTC detachment was at risk of closure in 1988, one of our most vocal supporters was the chairman of the Peace Studies program (I did, btw, complete the Peace Studies program - paid for by my ROTC scholarship). His opinion was that we as a society are better off if military officers come from a wide cross section of society, and are trained in a standard college environment (instead of the rigid academies) where they can be exposed to a wider varieties of ideas and people.
ultraist
Dec 11 2004, 09:34 PM
QUOTE(mtnmagic @ Dec 4 2004, 03:08 PM)
My son is 15 1/2 years old and a sophomore in high school. We are white middle class (and sinking). He carries a 4.20GPA and goes to college at night because he desparately wants to get into a good college. While he is also active in sports, he is not a stand out. Despite all of his efforts, the exploding cost of tuition, the lack
of available high school counselors and career development programs for guidance, and scholorships have made him begin to look to the military more and more as a viable alternative for training and college opportunities. He and his friends are
doing more and more of this on their own. There have been no overt recruiting
efforts at their High School. The thought of thousands and thousands of $'s in student loans is quite daunting to him. He also is concerned about placing me in a huge amount of debt. Patriotism does play a part also, even though he disagrees with the military involvement in Iraq, he believes as
through out history, the young must step up to the plate and do their duty.
The kid deserves a full ride to Stanford (no, I'm not saying this just because I'm
a proud mom). His unbelievable disclipline, quest for knowlege and desire to better himself educationally has been there since kindergarten. Stanford or Michigan (his first choice) is not a reality.
As a mother, I'm very torn. But the more info he gathers (on his own without pressure, the more I understand why he is considering the military....I guess
what I am saying in this long winded post is Today really is not yesterday's military
anymore. Thousands of dollars in educational opportunities, state of the art training are going to trump promotional key chains anyday.
There are universities that offer a free ride to kids within a certain income bracket: Harvard, UNC-Chapel, Yale, etc. And don't give up on scholarships.
I agree with what someone else said, if he has to, two years at Community college and then a State University is not so bad. Then he can go on to graduate school, which is what really counts!
I paid my way through college and had student loans. Interest rates were good and it's a small chunk of one's income to make the payment. It was a good investment and I have no regrets about it.
He may never make it to college if he signs up for the war.
PaineInTheArse
Dec 11 2004, 09:36 PM
All "right" minded people need to volunteer to serve on their local draft boards. See the prior threads.
ultraist
Dec 11 2004, 09:41 PM
QUOTE(floyd&shigeko @ Nov 29 2004, 08:11 AM)
Makes one sad and mad to read this article on recruitment policies; getting them changed likely isn't easy to do. Hard to say that these practices are illegal but as a minimum they seem very unethical. Kids in high school are not all that hard to manipulate when such targeted strategies and pressures are utilized by the recruiters.
And with rising tuition costs and Bush recently having CUT PELL GRANTS and raising the income levels, many more kids wont be able to afford college.
I don't understand why people are so afraid of student loans though. People borrow 20 or 30 grand for a car like it's nothing, why not a college education? It may mean the first house they purchase is not quite as big, but over time, they will make a lot more money having a degree than not. There is a positive correlation between education and income.
grammydidi
Dec 19 2004, 08:01 AM
Perfect example of swallowing the propaganda, hook, line and sinker!!!!! Try to wrap what's left of your thinking mind around the scenario of how much better off this country would be if all of the efforts and money would be geared toward higher education for our young people instead of teaching them to kill. The excuse for the war was based on LIES.........nothing good can come from the LIES that were told to get this country to go along. And it was all done just to keep Bush and his gang of criminals in power.
QUOTE(ETC1966 @ Dec 4 2004, 12:32 PM)
The enlisted ranks are filled with a broad spectrum of people from all races, colors, creeds, and financial/social status. The above article and comments reflect a complete misunderstanding of that, and are quite frankly, VERY OFFENSIVE, particularly Dante’s, “ I think having an all volunteer and then preselecting recruitment just screws the poor and working class... again”.
We volunteered to serve our country. No one forced us to sign up. They don’t even let judges do that “join the Army or go to jail” BS anymore. Recruiters are not always completely forthright with every detail of military service. There are some tasks we have to do that suck, but there are also opportunities that we’d never have had as a civilian. A lot of people use the military as a stepping-stone to bettering themselves.
Military recruiters are like fishermen. They go where their prospects for success are highest. If a high school is in a very wealthy neighborhood, chances are higher that the kids that don’t get scholarships are going to have their colleges paid for them, or maybe they’re going to work for the family business. As stated in the article, the recruiters don’t ignore them, but their efforts are focused on where they can do the most good. There are plenty of “rich” kids who join to rebel against their parents’ plans for their futures.
I joined the Navy while I was in high school to avoid being pressured into following in my father’s steps and joining the CIA (believe it or not, I don’t care). I was intending to get a NROTC scholarship, but a series of unfortunate events prevented that, but ultimately I think it was for the better.
Mugs and key chains are advertisements, not bribes. If kid wears a free t-shirt that the recruiter gave him it is going to be seen by a lot of prospects.
We certainly don’t have an all-volunteer military for the sake of avoid drafting rich people’s kids. America is about freedom.

billfmsd
Dec 19 2004, 08:07 AM
Draft is better. It brings the reality of the war home to everone, not just the poor. I know that volunteer service is better than manditory. But some people never grow=up until they are forced. I like what Germany does by giving every young adult a choice between military, health services, or rescue.
david sobien
Dec 19 2004, 11:20 AM
No one I know will cooperate with a Bush military draft. There will be a revolt on this issue. Let the red state christians send their sons to get their arms and legs blown off in unnarmored Hunvees for Bush. They voted for him. Now let them eat bullets.
Istoodforu
Dec 19 2004, 01:47 PM
QUOTE(Marine @ Dec 4 2004, 02:37 PM)
Just poor kids volunteer for the military is what happens?
Wait a second, didn't John Kerry volunteer? Didn't Al Gore volunteer?
Al Gore, John Kerry, George W. Bush, and I "volunteered" after our educational deferments ran out. We were "educated draftees". Would any of us have enlisted if it wasn't for the draft? It's hard to say, but we all had career opportunities available to us that were more lucrative.
Maybe John Kerry and Al Gore might have enlisted because of their interest in politics and elected office. Military service is obviously a plus on a candidate's resume. John Kerry did seem to be emulating JFK (PT -109) by volunteering for swift boats.
The Shrub and I were not particularly interested in politics at that point in time. We saw a chance to fly jets and we took it---maybe we might even be good enough to become commercial pilots, or even astronauts. I worked hard in pilot training to get a high enough class ranking so I could get assigned my preference to fly C-141 jet transports. A low class rank could have gotten me into a little Cessna forward air control plane in Nam. Washing out would have meant being a ICBM missle controller sitting in a hole somewhere in Nebraska waiting for doomsday to happen. Arggh!
One thing that I'm sure of. All four of us had reservations about Vietnam before we enlisted.
wpshreve
Dec 20 2004, 08:22 PM
Volunteering for the military is way, way down now. Why am I not surprised. Now what will our evildoer regime do about it ....
Regime change should begin at home.
lenal
Dec 20 2004, 08:45 PM
QUOTE(belgiangoth @ Nov 29 2004, 06:20 AM)
Well, if the military is so bad for those kids, why do they all vote republican?
(no, it's not rehtorical, why do they vote for wars and money for the military over money for education?)
Many of them enlist because they CAN get education in the service, and many of the ones wounded and interviewed have stated that is the reason they signed up.
Just in the last couple of days the benefits (translation =bribes) to try to compensate for the extreme drop off of enlistments has been elevated to where it can almost turn this into a mercenary army. Haven't we been screaming about the extremists opposing us, paying in several different ways for fighters, (?translate-"insurgents" " IED crafters", "suicide bombers" ) and our volunteers are pure and only doing it to spread freedom and democracy and are patriots thru and thru. Seems there is more hypocrisy taking root here.
If I find the link to the last carrot offering - I'll post it.
lenal
:o
lenal
Dec 20 2004, 09:01 PM
<_<
Try this link and click on the Benefits Chart, you may find it interesting to also look at other pages on this site. If you find anything that tells you you may get packed off to fight in a foreign war instead of serving to secure the peace within our borders, or to assist civilians in time of disasters, which has traditionally been the service expected of them, let me know.
http://www.1800goguard.com/money/money_benefits.htmllenal
wpshreve
Dec 20 2004, 09:48 PM
I wonder if they'll really get their benefits (bribes). Bribes up front, benefits later ... and later ... maybe later ... maybe not at all.
random_dana
Dec 22 2004, 07:27 AM
I don't quite understand the objection to financial inventives for military service. Would you prefer that we not be paid? We are not Janissaries, after all.
(I'll save you the trip to google and provided the definition: hereditary slave soldiers of the Ottoman empire)
ThomPaine
Dec 22 2004, 08:40 AM
QUOTE(ETC1966 @ Dec 7 2004, 04:27 AM)
Universal service would be incredibly expensive.
You might not realize it, because of the way the news portrays things, but today's 1.4 million active duty military service members comprise less than 1% of the US adult population, and most of the DoD's 3.3 million employees are civilians & reservists.
It might seem like a good way to make people take some responsibility and get a better sense of ownership of their country, but it’d be a lot more complicated than it looks for a myriad of reasons:
1) Would require a huge bureaucracy to manage so many people ($$$)
2) Federal paychecks for all your new “recruits”/conscripts ($$$)
3) Impact on employers losing everyone in that age range ($$$)
4) Not enough colleges already & this would make demand skyrocket, thus ($$$)
5) Dilute the value of college degrees already earned
6) Force military to abandon standards (most civilians are not within basic minimums)
7) Forcing gays & lesbians to join the military would be cruel & unusual punishment. Or is this some sort of lame plan for getting a bunch of them killed?
The most sensible thing the federal government could do is demand that part of the money that they are already putting into public education must actually go toward teaching what the US Constitution actually says, not what some people think it says, but verbatim what it says. Of course, then the kids might realize that the US Constitution doesn’t say anything about federal funding of education.
:D
Another thing they could do is stop trying to infringe on people’s 2nd Amendment gun rights and actually support the formation of local militias as the founders intended. Every able-bodied, law-abiding adult should be issued an M-16A1 and trained to use it. The penalty for a criminal stealing, or a convicted felon even being in possession of someone else's M-16 would be quite severe.
For all your $$$ signs, read 'jobs'. Many
civilized countries have National Service and have favorable public opinion of it.
You might not realize it, but the
original intent of 'keep & bear arms' was merely to get the Federal government out of the cost of supplying those arms, for say, Indian wars, and now you want to
issue them?

How $$$, how socialist...
6. A stint of National Service might do some of our our tubby, aimless youth a world of good.
You might not realize it, but the Constitution is not the Bible. It makes no pretence of containing supernatural wisdom. It is a living contract between all of us- We, the People- and among it's prominent features is the built-in methods of re-interpretation (Supreme Court) and change (Amendments such as the Bill of Rights). It is not Holy Writ, as they knew well, because it was our 2nd Constitution.
You might also consider that the Military is, by its very nature, the most SOCIALIST institution in our society. The individual is asked to sacrifice themselves for the good of the whole. For some this may mean combat- for others, cleaning up after combat. On that basis, the only fair thing is for each citizen to share the risk, not be able to buy their way out with a glossy part-time Air Guard assignment.
The ignorant & armed society you are suggesting was tried once- by Al Capone.
wpshreve
Dec 22 2004, 05:19 PM
The draft may be coming. Democrats will have no say in this as the Rethuglicans now control everything. With volunteering way down, even with the offer of cash up front, and with a war being promoted by the Rethuglicans, and with Faux News working everyone into a frenzy with "kill, kill, kill them all now as fast as we can" and glorifying this war, I don't see any other solution. Getting Resident W out of there by proving election fraud, and by proving that JK was the real winner of our election, seems the only answer. If a draft comes, it will still be the poor who have to go and die, just like it is with the volunteer military. The wealthy and the connected will always have a way out of serving, if that's what they choose.
Marine
Dec 22 2004, 06:12 PM
QUOTE(wpshreve @ Dec 22 2004, 05:19 PM)
The draft may be coming. Democrats will have no say in this as the Rethuglicans now control everything. With volunteering way down, even with the offer of cash up front, and with a war being promoted by the Rethuglicans, and with Faux News working everyone into a frenzy with "kill, kill, kill them all now as fast as we can" and glorifying this war, I don't see any other solution. Getting Resident W out of there by proving election fraud, and by proving that JK was the real winner of our election, seems the only answer. If a draft comes, it will still be the poor who have to go and die, just like it is with the volunteer military. The wealthy and the connected will always have a way out of serving, if that's what they choose.
The military doesn't want the draft reinstated, the vast majority of the American people would not tolerate a reinstatement of the draft, Congress voted this past summer 400 to 2 not to reinstate the draft, and Congress knows if they vote to reinstate a draft it would be the equivalence of committing political suicide.
So far the only voices for a reinstatement of the draft are coming from a very few people on the left. People purporting to be liberal thinkers are calling for a return to the draft. Use this forum as an example, no less than 15 threads have been started in the past month and a half stating the neccesity of a return to the draft.
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