I was surprised not to find this story here, since I found plenty months ago that already had him hung out to dry... including Murtha.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=07...;show_article=1

Murder charges dropped against Marine in Haditha case

Aug 9 01:42 PM US/Eastern

Murder charges against a US Marine accused of killing three Iraqi civilians during an alleged massacre in Haditha two years ago have been dropped, the military said on Thursday.
A statement released by the Marines at their Camp Pendleton base in southern California revealed that three charges of unpremeditated murder against Lance Corporal Justin Sharratt had been withdrawn.

The decision was announced in a written ruling from the commander Lieutenant General James Mattis and followed a recommendation from an investigator last month that the charges should be dropped.

"An independent Article 32 investigating officer has considered all the facts and determined that the evidence does not support a referral to court-martial for Lance Corporal Sharratt," Mattis wrote.

"Based on my review of all the evidence in this case and considering the recommendation of the Article 32 officer, I have dismissed the charges."

Sharratt was accused of shooting three Iraqi men execution-style in what prosecutors alleged was part of a rampage that left 24 civilians dead following the death of a Marine in a roadside bomb in November 2005.

Sharratt said the men were shot at close quarters as Marines cleared a house where insurgents were believed to be operating.

In a statement recommending the charges be dropped released last month, investigator Lieutenant Colonel Paul Ware said the prosecution charges were "unsupported by the independent evidence."

"To believe the government version of facts is to disregard clear and convincing evidence to the contrary," Ware added.

The Haditha killings are the most serious allegations of war crimes against US soldiers in Iraq.

Eight Marines were initially charged in connection with the case -- four with murder and four officers with failing to properly investigate the incident.

Sharratt is the second Marine to have murder charges dropped after allegations against Sergeant Sanick DeLa Cruz were withdrawn in April.


Copyright AFP 2007, AFP stories and photos shall not be published, broadcast, rewritten for broadcast or publication or redistributed directly or indirectly in any medium

Haven't you learned Terra ? ... quick, precipitous public lynchings are infinitely more gratifying than waiting for facts before finding the tree and the rope. Particularly when they can be used to promote your agenda.

THere are a lot of others in addition to Murtha who should hang their heads in shame over this one.

i don't think they like the taste of crow

Vultures usually feed on rotting carcases Vet. Crow may not be to their taste.

Sure is quiet in here now. Things were really hopping when that Marine was being lynched before all the facts were in.

After two years in military prison and being publicly convicted of inhumane crimes by Pennsylvania Congressman John Murtha, Lance Cpl. Justin Sharratt has been cleared of the charges Murtha made against him.

Via The Pirate’s Cove


Sharratt spent all this time in prison awaiting a court martial for a crime he didn’t commit. A good Marine was punished for nothing. Murtha made sure he was shamed in front of the entire country. Will Murtha have to answer for that?

Murtha is so arrogant he doesn’t think he has to answer for anything. He is above the law, in his mind. He hasn’t even apologized for what he’s done to these Marines!!!

http://bluestarchronicles.com/2007/08/10/c...haditha-marine/

"Our Way Is Right, But It Is Difficult"

We noted here that the prosecution of some, at least, of the Marines accused of committing murder at Haditha appeared to be crumbling. Sure enough: today, Lt. Gen. Jim Mattis, head of Marine Corps Forces-Central Command, dismissed all charges against two of the Marines, Lance Cpl. Justin Sharratt and Capt. Randy Stone, a lawyer who was the infantry battalion’s staff judge advocate.

As to these individuals, at least, the dismissal can be taken as proof that they were innocent. Lt. Gen. Mattis wrote eloquently about the conditions under which Marines in Iraq are required to make split-second decisions. I haven't seen the complete text of his decision, but these quotes are from the Navy Times account:

Sharratt, he wrote, “has served as a Marine infantryman in Iraq where our nation is fighting a shadowy enemy who hides among the innocent people, does not comply with any aspect of the law of war, and routinely targets and intentionally draws fire toward civilians.

“The challenges of this combat environment put extreme pressures on our Marines,” Mattis wrote. “Notwithstanding, operational, moral and legal imperatives demand that we Marines stay true to our own standards and maintain compliance with the law of war in this morally bruising environment.

“With the dismissal of these charges, LCpl Sharratt may fairly conclude that he did his best to live up to the standards, followed by U.S. fighting men throughout our many wars, in the face of life or death decisions made in a matter of seconds in combat,” Mattis added. “And as he has always remained cloaked in the presumption of innocence, with this dismissal of charges, he remains in the eyes of the law — and in my eyes — innocent.”

Mattis, in issuing his decisions, acknowledged the difficulties that infantrymen face in a combat zone, particularly in a counterinsurgency environment. “The experience of combat is difficult to understand intellectually and very difficult to appreciate emotionally,” he wrote, citing the writings of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr., an infantryman during the Civil War, who described war as an “incommunicable experience.”

Holmes, Mattis wrote, “has also noted elsewhere that ‘detached reflection cannot be demanded in the face of an uplifted knife.’ Marines have a well earned reputation for remaining cool in the face of enemies brandishing much more than knives. The brutal reality that Justice Holmes described is experienced each day in Iraq, where Marines willingly put themselves at great risk to protect innocent civilians.

“Where the enemy disregards any attempt to comply with ethical norms of warfare, we exercise discipline and restraint to protect the innocent caught on the battlefield,” he added. “Our way is right, but it is also difficult.”

These Marines are among those whom Mad Jack Murtha pronounced guilty on, he implied, inside information. Murtha, one of the most disgraceful of all Congressional Democrats, claimed that our Marines, including Lance Cpl. Sharratt, "executed civilians in cold blood." Murtha was wrong. Surely an apology to Lance Cpl. Sharratt and Capt. Stone will be forthcoming? Mad Jack's phone number is (202) 225-2065. It will take only a minute to ask his staff about the status of his apology to the now-cleared Marines.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2007/08/018166.php

Supporting the troops = NOT condemning them before all the facts are known.

You may be smiling Sandra. I am not. Thank you for linking to that thread. I just reread the entire thread ... skimming the multitude of articles which were designed to convict without a fair hearing., Reading them once was more than sufficient.

Where are the articles now when the picture has changed ? And where are those who were so ready to condemn their own . Missing in action it would seem.

I suggest " Judge not, lest ye be judged" might just apply.

Never mind Common Sense .. where is the CLASS ? It also appears to be missing in action.

Just to clarify (but I'm guessing you already know this, CO) -- I'm not really smiling. That emoticon was used with heavy sarcasm.

I rather suspected that knowing you Sandra. I suspect your feelings are similar to mine, you are just too nice to be as blunt as I am.. I'm too damn old to care if someone doesn't like hearing the truth

Well, I haven't checked in recently, but seeing this I think I should respond. I didn't go back and read the original thread, but from what I remember there was much that led many of us to feel something terrible had happened there and that some Marines had "lost it". I don't know about the guys in/out of the taxi, but I remember that a family was inside and children reported on this from under their bed. From what we were told it didn't look good in terms of judgement used by the Marines. However, I think I recall there was discussion of young men reacting in shock and indescribeable fear and possibly going over the top. Even today I hear such stories like the one where the soldier or Marine did not want his wife, also military, to do her next tour over there because of the horrible, unspeakable things that are being done now. Let's watch how we sanitize what has or has not happened. Giving people permission to shoot at will means we have no concern for Iraqi civilians, and if that is the case then that is all the more reason we shouldn't be there. I know most military people go out of their way to avoid civilian casualties, but we are caught in the middle of civil war now and there is no way to guess who is with you or trying to kill you. I am in complete sympathy with the young men and women who are forced to make these decisions by the callous people we call an administration in Washington, D.C. I don't want any of them there, period. There have been other horror stories that did prove out and those guys are facing judgement. That some in Haditha could not be proven to have done what was charged does not mean they weren't involved. My attention all along has been on which ones went in that house and killed women and children? That's what I remember about it.

I think there is some kind of unwarranted "smugness" on this thread. I agree completely with TSC. I remember that very few people wanted to pre-judge those Marines. Murtha said he'd heard it may have been murder from other Marine sources. He probably shouldn't have said anything publically, but I didn't and don't ascribe the mendacity to him that seems to be rampant on this thread.

Something happened unless you all believe those families just died for no reason? Bullets magically appeared in their bodies? Bodies just flew apart spontaneously? The charges have been dropped. So be it! But let's not start going over the edge here. Only those who were there, and God, knows what really happened.

I agree with you, TROu. Murtha prematurely judged the Marines based on what he had heard. However, I also detect a "smugness" in some posts, a "aha, gotcha" moment, intended it seems, to let those members of CGCS know that if they didn't condemn Murtha for his remarks, or if they discussed the possibility of the Marines' guilt, they are somehow "in the wrong". I don't see any point to that type of reaction to the news about the exonerated Marines other than resurrecting old conflicts on this board. Just my 2 cents. Also, I believe the two Marines who have been accused of murdering the women and children in two houses and men in a car have not yet been exonerated of guilt. We'll see how that goes. But, even if they should be found not guilty of murder or found guilty of a lesser charge, I hope that the discussion can move forward based on current news and old discussions can be laid to rest.

Sorry you see it as smugness. It is anything but. It is surprise and yes, a degree of disgust, that although this forum was inundated with rhetoric and news articles condemning these men without a fair hearing now when it appears the embracing of the worst possible scenario was wrong there is not one article posted here other than Terra's, or one post from those who were so quick to judge. That is patently wrong in a forum where common sense is expected to prevail.

That we have chosen to make note of that is not smugness, it is, at least on my part, an attempt to see fairness done.

I don't expect anyone to recognize that. I have come to understand that anything I might say will be taken in the most negative manner possible by some. Go ahead .. jump on .. its nothing new, nor does it surprise me.

It doesn't change the fact that several pages of posts in June 2006 condemned those now found to be innocent. I know the media buries apologies and corrections on the back pages. I expected better here. And btw .. this is current news.

But, as you say, the CGCS posts were from June 2006., over a year ago. Of course members are free to discuss or make reference to anything they want, as long as it remains within the boundaries of Forum rules. I was just suggesting that the discussion not become mired down in what members wrote over a year ago, particularly when the discussion often became contentious and divisive. If members want to present those same points today, that's a different matter, IMHO.

Call it "pique" then Betty. But it included quite a bit of "taunting" as well. I hope you don't see me as one of those who rushed to judge or one of those who takes anything you say in the most negative manner possible. The reports were coming from the military. They were the ones who brought the charges, and now they are the ones who are dropping them. There is no victory here. The Marines who have had the charges dropped will be tainted in the minds of some regardless. That is true. That is the way of the world, so they and their families aren't winners either. The dead men, women, and children in Iraq haven't won anything as their lives are over. Their surviving relatives and friends have suffered too. Murtha has been smeared because those who felt he shouldn't have spoken, will say he smeared those Marines. So he's not won anything either.

America's reputation suffered just with the charge to begin with along with whatever other "collateral damage" is ascribed to us, and the longer we stay there the worst that will get. Lots of people have lost their lives or had their lives changed forever for the worst. Some people may get some benefit from the invasion. The Kurds seem to be doing well, unless Turkey decides the party's over. And of course the Shia and Iran are big winners. Halliburton's profits are up, and Big Oil is salivating. And BlackWater and the rest of the mercenaries are making out well financially.

Call it a "mixed bag".

Amy, I am not suggesting for a second that we rehash old posts. I am merely suggesting that it is incumbent upon us to now post those articles which are currently in the news which address the same issue as was addressed in that abomination of a thread.

And I need to clarify something. I have no idea what has been posted elsewhere in CGCS on this subject. I am referring to this subforum where the original posts and thread were domiciled.

I agree with the sentiment of these posts. SOMETHING happened, and it sounded very bad for the Marines involved. To me, it still does, even though I understand that terrible things happen in war. Five of the Marines still face charges in this matter, by the way, including Frank Wuterich, the senior officer on the patrol.

I'm strongly suggesting that any discussion of any "wrong doing" that any member of the military might have committed and the legal results of any such accusations, remain "on topic" and steer clear of comments about CGCS members' character and/or personality traits. If any negative personal comments are posted about CGCS members, in particular, or in general, they will be deleted, if I see them. I do this to try and preserve a friendly and non-hostile environment for this board. Thank you.
amy

I am well aware you kept an open mind TRoU . I expect, and perceive nothing less from you always. Weelll, nearly always . In point of fact, you achieve that goal much more frequently than I do.

Excellent, TROU.

The truth is Betty, you are much more open minded than me. But thanks for the kind words.

You made reference to 'several pages of posts from June 2006". I imagine those posts contained members' comments along with news articles from that time . To bring the news articles forward for discussion today is one thing. To imply, even though it may have not been intentional, that members' posts form 2006 are also included in your critical remarks, is what I'm referring to. Perhaps, stating clearly what material from the 2006 posts you are referring to would help to keep the tone of this thread "friendly" and invite further, civil discussion of the topic. When I say this, I'm asking all members to do this, and I'm not singling you out, CO.

Amy, to do so would be singling out specific members which I will not do. I am referring to the thread period. That thread ran for several pages and several days. It doesn't require dredging up old material from that thread to ask that the current news be made note of and acknowledged. Reputations have been sullied and lives affected by the original news articles and comments . Opinions were formed in haste and it is only right that the resolution of that tragedy also receive attention. I don't believe that is unreasonable or lacking in civility.

I do not understand what you are saying, CO. Do you want a particular member to post the "new" news about the Haditha incident because they posted the "older" articles? You and anyone else is free to post the latest news. I certainly don't believe it is appropriate to be asking anyone to post the "latest new" of a topic that has been discussed in the past, no matter what their opinion was of the news topic at that time. A member does not need to prove that they are "fair and balanced" in their views by posting the latest news of an incident.

I did reply Amy but apparently It was not a suitable reply as it would appear to have disappeared.

Let me try again.

I apologize for my lack of comunication skills but I sincerely believe I did make my point quite clearly from the very first post I entered in this thread.

Fairness was all I was asking for or expecting. As I am in the minority in seeking this I suggested we stop beating a dead horse.

I am well aware you have a great many tasks to take care of as a mod and have no wish to add to your burdens.

As I also had chores to do I suggested we leave it there. I sincerely hope this is within forum rules and will not suffer the same fate as the last one Amy. I have no clue why it was deleted as I meant no insult or disrespect to anyone and certainly not you. Perhaps you would be kind enough to tell me what rule I broke with my last post ? I certainly don't want to repeat the transgression. I am not trying to be a smart*ss.. I really would like to know.

That's fine, CO. If you feel your post was clear, no need to further explain.

And that comment he heard it from other Marine sources is what convinces me Jack Murtha is a liar.

Jack Murtha was breifed on the events in Haditha by Michael Hagee, the Comandant of the Marine Corps. I served under Michael Hagee in three commands, Michael Hagee is a square shooter, an honorable man, a Marine's Marine, and if he told Jack Murtha he believed it was murder he would a said so.

I have yet to hear Jack Murtha apoligize.

Actually if you go back to the Haditha thread here in the Mil/Vets forum methinks you'll find links indicatin' somethin' very much less definitive he based his dumb ass statement on. In fact in he said at a news conference six months after the incident that sources in the military had told him an internal investigation would expose serious misconduct. Bit of a difference I'd say.

"Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood," Murtha said, before calling for U.S. troops to be "redeployed" out of the country is what methinks you'll find a couple links for in that thread. That's a statement he's never retracted, so I guess he still stands by it. You might try callin' his office to find out, and if you do hopefully you'll be more successful than this guy was, eh?

I read the coments posted there Doc, I found this one to be pretty pertinent:

Guess you could say that about everybody who served in the Armed Forces and then served as an elected public servant eh?

Maybe he's had some experience to base his "dumb ass" statements on after 35 years as a Marine Doc? I get that he broke some kind of unwritten code by his statement and in fact he may have been wrong in this case since the charges were dropped. I said from the beginning it was a mistake on his part, but I'm surprised there is so much bile against a former Marine for a statement when there seems to be none from you guys against an AWOL brat whose lying words and reckless incompetent and corrupt actions have resulted in over 3600 Armed Forces deaths, and some 20 thousand plus serious life changing injuries.

Maybe Marine's charges of politics from you both against Murtha, are a bit like the pot calling the kettle black? With all due respect of course.

I sincerely had doubts about Murtha's statements when he attributed them to have been given the information by a high ranking un-named officer in the Marine Corps.

Hell, everyone knew he had been briefed by Michael Hagee so to me he was telling the world Michael Hagee had told him he believed the Marines to be guilty.

I know Michael Hagee. I know he would not make such a statement because it would a been prejudicial to those Marines getting a fair trial. If the Commandant of the Marine Corps had said that he believed those Marines was guilty he would a based it on rock solid evidence. As we see there ain't no rock solid evidence that they was guilty.

Jack Murtha put being a politician ahead of being a Marine, Jack Murtha put being a politician ahead of those young men getting a fair trial, and Jack Murtha ought to be man enough to apoligize for trying to destroy those young men's lifes to make a few political brownie points.

Political "brownie points"? You mean like getting our troops out of harms way? And how the hell do you know Hagee was the only one he talked to? Think it's impossible that maybe he knows a few other people? Yeah there weren't no rock solid evidence except a bunch of dead men, women, and children. And the charges were brought by the "enemy" (The Marines). You know the same group that now has dropped the charges? But we all need to shrug this off. After all they were only Iraqis and "collateral damage" happens in between the flowers and candy Cheney said they would strew in our path.

TRoU, take a deep breath . I don't know how come you haven't seen it but I sure have seen lots of criticism of the ones who get your dander up, namely "the AWOL Brat" and his buddies, by at least one of the individuals you have accused of unfair bias.

Murtha didn't just make a few comments for a news article or in the House.. he was all over the interview shows carrying the noose and looking for someone to build the gallows. He admitted himself he was going to seek higher office at that point .. he did the best imitation of a hatchet man that I've ever seen. Did it get the troops home any faster or assist in ending this war? Did it save ONE life ?

I applaud those who oppose this war and proudly state loudly and clearly that I am a member of that fraternity. I don't want to do it on the backs of those in harm's way . Its too difficult to avoid getting cut by the knives sticking out of those backs put there by those heralding their support for them so loudly..

Your hero Murtha isn't what he may seem to so many if a recent article I read about his military service record has any credibility . I will not sink so low as to post the article however as I cannot verify its reliability. Given his record in Congress and the charges he has faced there historically however it did give me pause for thought as to his character.

I don't know anything about Murtha Betty except what I've read and seen publically. I said it seemed like a mistake for him to speak publically about the charges until all the facts were in. But the quickness to condemn seems to go both ways. I understand the esprit de corps (especially between the Navy and the Marines given their history), but I have heard nothing from Marine or Doc about "apologies" from the AWOL Brat. I myself as a citizen am concerned about our troops and anyone who will help them get away from that hellhole I favor. Those who want us to be there I oppose. It really is that simple for me at this point. It is FUBAR and I don't want anymore lives lost. Did he save one life? History will have to judge that. If by his bringing up redeployment from a Marine with 35 years of service helped to stiffen the spine of the Dems, and get the country to move in the right direction ends the fiasco one day sooner, he'll have helped to save lives.

Murtha is not my hero, and he may have had shady dealings and be far from perfect. But that has been par for the course in Washington for a long time. If he is guilty of some crime let a Grand Jury be convened. But the smear campaign didn't start on him till he spoke up about redeployment. Then every mealy mouthed creep from the right started in on him. Co-incidence right? Let's start comparing service records among Dems and Republicans. Let's bring that on I say. Guess what Betty? It ain't gonna happen because the Repubs like to talk big and wear flag lapel pins but when it comes to putting their own butts on the line they come up short. Let's have a draft I say and have everyone who didn't serve (including me at 57) eligible, and see how fast the Gung Ho ChickenHawks slither back under a rock!

Sorry. I do lose my temper now and again. I'll take a deep breath now.

Its allowed TRoU.. if it were not I would have been shot long ago !

I am not suggesting cowardice or anything of that nature from the article I mentioned TRoU. I was however surprised to see it say most of his time was spent in administrative positions behind the lines throughout those years. Thought I better clarify that point.

Yes, those who have served have a loyalty to brothers, as they should do, they learn quickly that their lives may well depend on any one of them who may happen to be nearby when danger is present. That tends to carve bonds of steel.

That does not mean that they leave all their brain cells in their foot lockers. And I very much doubt either one of the posters here ever voted for George Bush. In fact, I'd bet money on it.

Well...that's something I guess.

Holy Cow ! .. you are more stubborn than I am ! And that's sayin' sumthin '!

I do know its not a laughing matter TRoU, I do understand where you come from. Maybe I'm able to be more dispassionate because I am looking on at what is being done to your country..

The thing is ..as the US goes .. so goes Canada and the rest of the Free World ultimately. All of our fates are at risk.

Told ya!

But yes. I am sick of this misery for so many. And I am relatively safe and sound. I cannot imagine what it is like to be getting up every day with a bullseye on your back.

Yeah, political brownie points like providing a My Lai incident then lynching some poor Lance Corporal trying to serve his country while doing his duty. And every bit of it was either a figment of Jack Murtha's imagination or an organized attempt to subvert the Military Justice system.

If your idea of supporting the troops is having a necktie party for an innocent enlisted man why don't you go support al Qaeda for a while?

Start using your troops like Murtha tried to use them and the military will end up being something akin to what the Banana Republics have.

What the hell are you talking about? Mai Lai didn't happen? You havin a another "grudge eruption" Marine. You and Graham ought to join the same club. Bananas and brownies served for free. And while you're at it why don't you and Bush and his buddies the Bin Ladens all take a long walk off a....well in the interests of "comity" I'll leave it there.

TRoU, before you have a stroke I think Marine meant "an incident similar to My Lai" referring to Haditha, and now I am going to slink away and mind my own business as you two hotheads have at one another..

If you don't think the anti-war movement was salivating at the prospects of the United States military being caught in an atrocity at Haditha along the same lines of what happened at My Lai in the Vietnam War you have not been paying attention very well. Matter of fact, when this issue was FIRST presented here on this forum the title was "Haditha, Iraq's My Lai".

Jack Murtha with his statements branded the Marines who were present at Haditha as guilty of "Cold Blooded Murder" with the only evidence being an unknown Marine officer told him that.

Well, based on what I know about Jack Murtha, the unindicted co-conspirator in the ABSCAM bribery scandal, and General Michael W. Hagee, the 33rd Commandant of the Marine Corps, guess which one I am going to accept their word on it?

An enlisted man in America's military has a hard enough road to hoe already; he don't need some politician trying to railroad him into the brig because that politician values his party's aspirations higher than honesty, justice, and that enlisted man's freedom.

And if you want to see a grudge eruption let anyone mess with a junior Marine without cause anytime and you will surely get one out of me.

There is no question in my mind that they were salivating. Just look back at the topic I referred to in one of my earlier posts.



Semper Fi, Marine.

I wish it were true that ALL Americans would stand by ALL (Marines, Army, Air Force, etc.) of these young men and women, and refrain from a rush to judgment when something like this happens. In the future, let's wait for the verdict before condemning someone.

Good grief! Was I called a Bush apologist by someone? Give me a break!No, don't believe so since methinks most in that category'd have enough class not to publicly prejudge military folks even before the investigations're completed like Congressman Murtha did. Can you think of anyone else that's done it?Ida thunk his experience'd tell him to keep his mouth shut in this situation, eh? Bein' a prominent member of the House Armed Forces Committee as well as a previously respected retired Marine officer, by openin' it and spewin' forth his drivel he may well have prejudiced the case and methinks probably negatively affected morale and judgement of them servin' under fire. The concept of military rights and responsibilities, includin' respectin' their constitutional guarantee to a fair trial, ain't an "unwritten code"! I've made numerous references to it and explained it in depth here in this area in many previous threads. I'm sorry you didn't pay attention to them, eh? Now methinks you're talkin' apples and oranges in rhetorical fashion. That Bush screwed up big time is somethin' I've talked 'bout plenty elsewhere and IMHO ain't pertinent to the specifics of this case.Would you please point out a single instance where I did what you accuse me of by this statement? I don't recall ever doin' any such thing, and've tried to be as clear, concise and specific as I can when talkin' 'bout it.

Makes no difference to me what party a politician belongs to, they still should be held accountable for what they say or do. IMHO what Murtha did regardin' the Haditha incident negatively prejudiced the ability of these Marines to get a fair trial, and methinks also may be responsible for other military folks under fire hesitate makin' judgment calls puttin' them and their brothers in arms in even more danger.

If they're proven guilty then hang 'em, but let's do the trial first, eh? Methinks they deserve their constitutional rights the same as the rest of us.

First of all I don't speak for the anti-war movement. Whatever sentiments you ascribe to them are part of your personal decades long hate dance with them that you drag into every discussion. You want to hate them go ahead. It's no skin off my nose. Some of the things some of those groups say don't make sense to me because for one thing I'm not a "pacifist". Not in this world.

Second. I don't know what happened except I read that a group of Iraqi men, women, and children, were slaughtered. Yeah slaughtered unless you think an old infirm Iraqi man and women and little children are legitimate targets. Now according to what people who have been in combat say, terrible things "happen" in the heat of battle all the time. But the people who brought the charges are people who have been in battle themselves presumably, and felt there was a "problem" with what occured, and some of them apparently told Murtha. He should not have spoken about either what he heard or what he thought publically until the facts were in. I said that before, and it's the last time I'm going to say it. It's been investigated now and the charges have been dropped. "End of story". And so it goes.

Third and finally. You want Murtha's head? Go get it. I just find it ironic that you talk about the value you supposedly place on "Constitutional Rights, honesty, and justice" when it applies to those Marines, and decry "some politician's aspirations" that threaten their rights and freedoms, yet you consistently give a pass to the biggest threat to all those values in America's history. I'd have a lot easier time believing you really give a tinker's damn about any of those things if I hadn't read the outrageous crap that's been coming out of your mouth for years.

Alright Doc. I'm sorry I mixed you up with Marine, and ascribed some of his sentiments and statements that you either don't necessarily share or didn't say. I got caught up in the verbal battle and became sloppy. It happens when I get angry, but there is no good excuse, and I apologize.

The only thing which is outrageous is what he democratic party has turned it's self in to.