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QUOTE
100,000 could lose college grants

SPENDING BILL LACKS LANGUAGE THAT KEPT FUNDING LAST YEAR

By Greg Winter And Diana Jean Schemo

NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE

The federal government will be able to require millions of college students to shoulder more of the cost of their education under the new spending bill approved yesterday by the House and Senate.

The government moved to change its formula for college aid last year, but was blocked by Congress. Now, however, no such language appears in the appropriations bill lawmakers are considering, clearing the way for the government to scale back college grants for hundreds of thousands of low-income students.

Nearly 100,000 more students could lose their federal grants entirely, as Congress considers legislation that could place more of the financial burden for college on students and their families.

The cutback stems from a revision to the formula governing virtually all of the nation's financial aid. Last year, the Department of Education changed the formula on its own, angering members of Congress who contended that it was a backdoor way of cutting education spending without facing the public. The department retorted that it was merely following the law.

In response, Congress passed legislation in the fall of 2003 to suspend the new formula for at least a year. The Senate put forward the same measure this year, and many members of the House said they also expected the new formula would wait at least until Congress updates the Higher Education Act, which will probably take the better part of the coming year.

But keeping the old formula in place for another year would add an extra $300 million in grants for college students to a program that is already running at a shortfall, the Office of Management and Budget said. So, the bill approved by the House, brokered by congressional leaders in a conference committee, eliminates a provision that would have barred the Education Department from changing the eligibility formula. A Senate staff member who spoke on the condition of anonymity said the White House insisted the provision be dropped, citing the shortfall, and House Republicans were adamant in their agreement to do so.

"They are throwing students out of the opportunity to seek a college education," said Sen. Jon S. Corzine, D-N.J., who wrote the amendment to stop the changes last year, and introduced a similar provision this year that did not survive the conference committee. "It is now clear to me that this was a backdoor attempt to cut funding from the Pell grant program."


http://www.kentucky.com/mld/heraldleader/n...on/10236742.htm
gmanders777
Nov 23, 2004
Pell Grant Change in Congress Could Affect Eligibility for Many Low-Income Students
By Justin Pope
The Associated Press


Congress is again adding hundreds of millions of new dollars to the Pell Grant program for low-income college students, but it's also allowing a procedural change that would cut - and in some cases eliminate - grant eligibility for as many as 1 million students.

The spending bill passed by Congress last weekend increases funding for Pell Grants, the main federal form of college aid for poor students, by $458 million to about $12.4 billion, though that figure could be ultimately trimmed back slightly.

Like other boosts to the Pell program in recent years, this one will be devoured entirely by increased demand. And the maximum grant will be frozen at $4,050, despite sharp increases in college costs.

The grant amounts aren't growing because more people are seeking them. The number of students receiving Pell Grants has increased 37 percent in the last decade to more than 5 million, according to the College Board, which owns the SAT exam.

Meanwhile, Congress declined last weekend to block the Education Department from updating tax deduction tables used to calculate aid eligibility - a move that angered Democrats and some higher education advocates.

If the Education Department updates the tables, it would cause about 1 million prospective Pell Grant recipients to have their eligibility reduced by an average of $300, according to Brian Fitzgerald, staff director of the Advisory Committee on Financial Assistance, which advises Congress. The update would save the Pell program about $300 million annually.

The impact would be felt largely by students from families earning between $35,000 and $40,000, Fitzgerald said. Poorer families don't generally benefit from the deductions, and more wealthy ones don't typically qualify for Pells.

About 84,000 students eligible for some award under the previous guidelines would get nothing, Fitzgerald said.

The tables used to calculate awards are still based on IRS state income tax rate data from 1988, when rates in many states were higher than they are now. If the tables are updated, they will show many applicants paying less in state taxes, and the federal government will expect them to contribute more of their own college costs.

The Education Department is required by law to update the tax tables (the 2001 IRS data is now the most recent available) and was set to do so last year until Congress blocked the change. Democrats and education lobbyists had expected Congress to block the update again, but Saturday's bill included no such language.

Now, Democrats say, Pell Grant applicants are being hit twice: Families are paying higher state taxes, since rates have gone up since 2001, but they won't get credit for it when applying for Pell Grants.

"The Republican Congress just threw students who need Pell Grants to afford a college education out into the cold," said Sen. John Corzine, a New Jersey Democrat.

But Rep. John Boehner, R-Ohio, chairman of the Education and the Workforce Committee, said updating the outdated tax tables is necessary "to protect those needy student who are truly eligible for Pell Grants." If old numbers are used in the tables, he said, aid won't reach those who need it most.

Terry Hartle, senior vice president of the American Council on Education, which represents universities, commended the Republican administration and Congress for at least maintaining the maximum Pell Grant in the face of increasing demand. But he called the decision to allow the deduction change "disappointing."

"The biggest impact will be on low-income students hoping to go to college," Hartle said. "Ninety percent of Pell Grant recipients have incomes below $40,000, so that's who's going to get squeezed here."

----

On the Net:

Student aid information: http://studentaid.ed.gov

AP-ES-11-23-04 0338EST

This story can be found at: http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBK4XE9W1E.html

# Go Back To The Story
*****************************************


SCREWING MIDDLE CLASS AGAIN!!!!! mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif
shah269
oh thank god!
and the republicans thought that they would have to start the draft!
but now they have a million unwilling perticipants!
wooh hoo!
who's next!
iran!
cmerrill
Why shouldn't the Republicans screw the middle class? They've screwed them for at least the last 4 years and the middle class keeps voting them back in and increasing their majorities so the Republicans have every reason to believe that the middle class enjoys being screwed.
shah269
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=bushuncensored.wmv

His thoughts!
what are yours!
LeftistIndependent
Well that is not nice to know. Currently I pay most of my tuition from working my a*s off and saving up my money. I attend a jr. college at the moment, but I was hoping to apply for a Pell Grant when I transfer to a University. So much for relying on that. sad.gif
alyce
Again this administration is showing their disdain for further education for low income class of people, the people in this regime have no decency anymore.
shah269
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/bushuncensored.wmv
andie
well, i just lost my pell grant. it was only $400 anyway...supposed to be $1000 but we see how that turned out.

i remember from a kerry-bush debate the discussion of the pell grant and bush claimed more kids were receiving it and kerry came back with the best point that no one paid any attention to, and it was that more kids were receiving the grant because they're receiving less than half of what's promised...

kerry was fighting for people my age who need help with school YET the young people didnt turn out more than 17%, like in 2000, if they wouldve shown up just a little more, kerry couldve won and i wouldnt have to worry about if i can go to school each semester. and on that note, i really appreciate people who are supposedly my friends who voted for bush. sure, they dont need college money because their life isnt the same as mine, but they shouldve taken me into consideration while they cast their vote for a man who could determine if i'm capable of getting an education with the signing of his name.
ultraist
QUOTE(andie @ Nov 23 2004, 11:27 AM)
well, i just lost my pell grant. it was only $400 anyway...supposed to be $1000 but we see how that turned out.

i remember from a kerry-bush debate the discussion of the pell grant and bush claimed more kids were receiving it and kerry came back with the best point that no one paid any attention to, and it was that more kids were receiving the grant because they're receiving less than half of what's promised...

kerry was fighting for people my age who need help with school YET the young people didnt turn out more than 17%, like in 2000, if they wouldve shown up just a little more, kerry couldve won and i wouldnt have to worry about if i can go to school each semester. and on that note, i really appreciate people who are supposedly my friends who voted for bush. sure, they dont need college money because their life isnt the same as mine, but they shouldve taken me into consideration while they cast their vote for a man who could determine if i'm capable of getting an education with the signing of his name.

*


I loved Kerry's response to Bush on that during that debate when Bush said, more students are getting the pell grant. Kerry chuckled and said, 'more people now qualify for the pell grant, that's why more students are receiving it!' (HELLOOO...is it a good thing that more people are so poor they qualify for federal income based grants?)

What wasn't mentioned though is that they changed the income standards which will cut the amounts of recipients across the board. Has this gone into effect?

There's always student loans if you must! Better to finish your degrees with some loans than not have a degree and get tracked right into the military.
teacher731
Just before the Thanksgiving holiday, the Right Wing majority that controls Congress threatened the college dreams of more than 1 million American students.

They authorized cuts to the leading federal college grant program (Pell Grants) that children of working families rely on to afford college. Those cuts would endanger the college education primarily of students whose families earn less than $40,000 a year, and who are already scrimping to put their sons and daughters through school. [1]

After all of the conservatives talk about "family values," you'd never expect them to pull the rug out from under the feet of America's neediest students, but that's exactly what they did. They gave the Bush Administration's incoming Education Secretary, Margaret Spellings, authority to cut tuition aid to more than 1 million students from working and middle class families. [2]

But Secretary Spellings need not make these cuts. Please write her today to tell her not to slash Pell grants. No American child should be priced out of a college education if they have the grades and desire to pursue one.

http://www.ourfuture.org/defend_Pell_Grants.cfm

The right-wing majority in Congress preach about "morals," but what morals do they practice. Their latest outrage authorizes cuts in tuition aid to qualified students who lack the means to afford college. At the same time, this same conservative majority is hell-bent on extending tax breaks which -- in 2004 alone -- will put more than $30 billion into the pockets of America's wealthiest multimillionaires. [3]

Where is the morality in that?

If Secretary-elect Spellings exercises her new authority to cut this program, 90,000 of America's neediest students would completely lose the Pell Grants they rely on to afford college, and more than a million others would have their grants cut. [4]

Fortunately, this travesty can be stopped because Spellings needs to hear from you along with thousands of other outraged students, parents and concerned citizens. Please write to her now, and ask that she pledge not to endanger the education of over 1 million students.

http://www.ourfuture.org/defend_Pell_Grants.cfm

Anyone who shuts the doors to college on the children of working American families shuts the door on America's future. Let's make certain that Spellings, the administration she serves and the Congressional majority who pushed this change into law know that we will hold them accountable for what they do.

http://www.ourfuture.org/defend_Pell_Grants.cfm

Thank you.

Sincerely,


Robert L. Borosage, Co-Director
Campaign for America's Future
Hope4Future
That's exactly why I voted for Kerry.

I read somewhere that in order for Bush to support his tax cut they would have to cut Finacial Aid in the comeing year.

Why isn't this posted in the Student and young people's section? This concerns them just as much as it does here.
teacher731
QUOTE(Hope4Future @ Dec 4 2004, 10:35 AM)
That's exactly why I voted for Kerry.

I read somewhere that in order for Bush to support his tax cut they would have to cut Finacial Aid in the comeing year.

Why isn't this posted in the Student and young people's section? This concerns them just as much as it does here.
*

good idea- i'll post it there. thanks for the tip!
teacher731
Just before the Thanksgiving holiday, the Right Wing majority that controls Congress threatened the college dreams of more than 1 million American students.

They authorized cuts to the leading federal college grant program (Pell Grants) that children of working families rely on to afford college. Those cuts would endanger the college education primarily of students whose families earn less than $40,000 a year, and who are already scrimping to put their sons and daughters through school. [1]

After all of the conservatives talk about "family values," you'd never expect them to pull the rug out from under the feet of America's neediest students, but that's exactly what they did. They gave the Bush Administration's incoming Education Secretary, Margaret Spellings, authority to cut tuition aid to more than 1 million students from working and middle class families. [2]

But Secretary Spellings need not make these cuts. Please write her today to tell her not to slash Pell grants. No American child should be priced out of a college education if they have the grades and desire to pursue one.

http://www.ourfuture.org/defend_Pell_Grants.cfm

The right-wing majority in Congress preach about "morals," but what morals do they practice. Their latest outrage authorizes cuts in tuition aid to qualified students who lack the means to afford college. At the same time, this same conservative majority is hell-bent on extending tax breaks which -- in 2004 alone -- will put more than $30 billion into the pockets of America's wealthiest multimillionaires. [3]

Where is the morality in that?

If Secretary-elect Spellings exercises her new authority to cut this program, 90,000 of America's neediest students would completely lose the Pell Grants they rely on to afford college, and more than a million others would have their grants cut. [4]

Fortunately, this travesty can be stopped because Spellings needs to hear from you along with thousands of other outraged students, parents and concerned citizens. Please write to her now, and ask that she pledge not to endanger the education of over 1 million students.

http://www.ourfuture.org/defend_Pell_Grants.cfm

Anyone who shuts the doors to college on the children of working American families shuts the door on America's future. Let's make certain that Spellings, the administration she serves and the Congressional majority who pushed this change into law know that we will hold them accountable for what they do.

http://www.ourfuture.org/defend_Pell_Grants.cfm

Thank you.

Sincerely,


Robert L. Borosage, Co-Director
Campaign for America's Future
readyinTX
So I guess the question is...

Do you disagree with Bush? smile.gif
teacher731
QUOTE(readyinTX @ Dec 4 2004, 05:57 PM)
So I guess the question is...

Do you disagree with Bush?  smile.gif
*



If I ever became insane enough to agree on anything shrub has done these past 4 years (and what he'll get away with the next 4- SCARY blink.gif ), I'd cjeck myself into the nearest institution!!
lol.gif
winterreise
QUOTE(readyinTX @ Dec 4 2004, 05:57 PM)
So I guess the question is...

Do you disagree with Bush?  smile.gif
*


Apparently, Bush disagrees with himself.

=====snip======
Election promises don't cheer colleges
Campus skeptics cite Bush, Kerry records on higher education
Tanya Schevitz, Chronicle Staff Writer
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c...MNGBE9AA1V1.DTL

Friday, October 15, 2004


President Bush and Sen. John Kerry both have ambitious plans for colleges and universities, but some higher education leaders aren't putting much stock in them.

In a second term, Bush wants to increase grants to low-income students, boost funding for community colleges and relax financial aid rules on private institutions to help returning students, especially those seeking to improve their skills for a new economy.

Kerry, his Democratic challenger, wants to expand and increase the current tuition tax credit to provide students about $2,500 a year and has proposed $10 billion in new federal aid for state colleges to keep tuition down.

Some higher education leaders say, however, that their field has been virtually ignored by the incumbent administration and that Kerry has never paid much attention to higher education while in the Senate.

"The thing that any advocacy group is going to look for is the frequency that their topic gets mentioned on the campaign trail, and higher education has not been a priority," said Terry Hartle, senior vice president for the American Council on Education, an umbrella group for colleges and universities. "It is obviously not catching the attention of people as much as Iraq, as much as jobs, as much as the economy."

The Bush administration has focused its education policy almost exclusively on the K-12 system and the No Child Left Behind Act, which Kerry has endorsed but wants better funded.

Patrick Callan, president of the nonprofit National Center for Public Policy and Higher Education, said all the attention on the elementary and secondary grades didn't address a key issue.

"If these kids can't afford college, they don't have a lot of incentive to work hard,'' Callan said. "The possibility that college is there for you is what is going to drive high school reform."

The few policy initiatives Bush has undertaken in higher education have been modest and narrow in scope, education experts said.

They include a revision of the federal tax codes to make it more favorable for families to save for their children's college costs -- something that primarily helps middle- and upper-income families. He has also increased funding about $63 million (or 25 percent since 2001) for colleges that have historically served black and Latino students. And he has proposed a $250 million grant program at the Department of Labor for job training programs that has not yet been approved by Congress.

Bush campaigned in 2000 with a pledge to significantly increase the maximum award under the Pell Grant program, which provides grants to low- income college students. Despite dramatic increases in tuition across the country, however, the amount of the award has hardly increased during Bush's time in office. Tracey Schmitt, a spokeswoman for the Bush campaign, said that the administration had boosted overall funding for the Pell Grant program by 47 percent but that the number of Pell Grant recipients had skyrocketed.

The program, which aided 4.3 million students in the 2001-02 fiscal year, is expected to serve an estimated 5.4 million students in fiscal 2005-06 and now has a $4 billion deficit.

Still, Schmitt said, Bush was able to raise the maximum annual grant from $3,750 in 2001 to the current $4,050. But critics say that doesn't match tuition increases and has been stagnant for two years. The administration's budget proposal for fiscal 2005-06 does not include an increase.

Bush says he would also establish a $125 million Community College Access Grants Fund to improve services provided by community colleges and provide scholarships to students planning to transfer to four-year institutions. Funding would be offered to encourage community colleges to expand dual- enrollment programs where high school students can take classes and earn college credit.

"The one thing Bush had really promised (in his first campaign) was to increase the Pell Grants, and he didn't do that, mostly because of the deficit and war, I guess," Callan said.

In his plans for a second term, Bush is proposing an increase in the maximum Pell Grant award to $5,050. He says he would also seek to increase the limit of subsidized federal loans for first-year students from $2,625 to $3, 000.

Kerry's campaign says he has no plans to increase the Pell Grant because his proposed $50 billion in tax credits would help all students, including the poor who would benefit from Pell Grants.

His so-called College Opportunity Tax Credit would provide students with a tax credit of $2,500 a year for each of four years of college tuition, an increase over the current $1,500 Hope Credit that is only available for two years of college. And while the current education tax credits do not benefit the lowest-income students because they do not pay taxes, Kerry has proposed giving low-income students an outright grant equal to the tax break.

"It is all the same kids. It has the same consequences (as an increase in direct financial aid)," said Robert Gordon, director of domestic policy for the Kerry campaign.

Gordon said that Kerry's education focus was on helping all families afford college and that he hoped to blunt steep tuition increases. He has proposed $10 billion in aid for states that do not raise their state university tuition faster than inflation over two years.

And Kerry would expand national service programs such as AmeriCorps to allow 500,000 students a year to earn up to $5,000 a year for college in the next decade.

Funding would come from Kerry's plan to repeal Bush's tax cuts for families making more than $200,000 annually, among other things, Gordon said.

However, Hartle remains pessimistic.

"Promises are pretty easy to make; actually backing them up with a real budget and resources is more problematic," Hartle said. "The biggest issue is that we have a huge budget deficit projected at over $400 billion, and this is going to make it very difficult. You'd be hard pressed to say higher education will be one of their top priorities."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CHART:

GEORGE W. BUSH AND JOHN KERRY ON EDUCATION
The candidates' positions on key issues:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pell Grants
Bush: Proposes raising the maximum Pell Grant award to $5,050 and expanding the program to provide year-round awards for students who want to accelerate their studies.

Kerry: No specific proposal on Pell Grants



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Student aid
Bush: Proposes increasing federal loan limits for first-year students from $2,625 to $3,000 and making loans available to help workers pay for short-term training that leads to an industry-recognized credential or certificate. Also proposing relaxing rules that limit financial aid for private institutions and online education programs.

Kerry: Proposes $50 billion in annual tax credits to help families cover college tuition. The program would provide students with $2,500 a year for each of four years for college and would be given as a grant to those whose income is too low to pay taxes. Kerry also proposes a $10 billion incentive fund that would be distributed to states that hold tuition steady for two years and relaxing financial aid rules for online education.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Community colleges
Bush: Proposes a $125 million Community College Access Grants Fund to improve services provided by community colleges and provide scholarships to students planning to transfer to four-year institutions. He would provide funding to encourage community colleges to expand dual-enrollment programs where high school students can take classes and earn college credit. In addition, he would use the funding as an incentive for states to simplify the transfer process.

Kerry: Proposes $100 million to strengthen ties among community colleges and local businesses and to improve training for students and workers in key high-technology fields. Also proposes a five-year initiative to improve the quality of online education to make training more available for workers needing updated skills.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
National service
Bush: No specific plan, but in 2004 Bush dramatically increased funding for AmeriCorps.

Kerry: Proposes an expansion of national service programs to 500,000 students annually in the next decade.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Teacher preparation
Bush: Makes nearly $6.5 billion available to support teachers in his 2005 budget through preparation, recruitment incentives, loan forgiveness and tax relief.

Kerry: Proposes a new Teacher Corps with scholarships and loan forgiveness for teachers who spend at least four years at needy schools. Also proposes alternative teacher certification through testing, student teaching and on-the- job mentoring. Also proposes a rating standard for how well colleges teach and train teachers and would eventually withhold federal funds from those that do not meet the minimum standard.
Istoodforu
QUOTE(teacher731 @ Dec 3 2004, 10:50 PM)
[color=blue]Just before the Thanksgiving holiday, the Right Wing majority that controls Congress threatened the college dreams of more than 1 million American students.

They authorized cuts to the leading federal college grant program (Pell Grants) that children of working families rely on to afford college. Those cuts would endanger the college education primarily of students whose families earn less than $40,000 a year, and who are already scrimping to put their sons and daughters through school.

But Secretary Spellings need not make these cuts. Please write her today to tell her not to slash Pell grants. No American child should be priced out of a college education if they have the grades and desire to pursue one.

http://www.ourfuture.org/defend_Pell_Grants.cfm


If these cuts take place, then drastic enrollment shortfalls will follow. Teaching positions will be cut and the quality of instruction will be diluted. The last cuts to be made, if at all, would be administrators' salaries. I guess someone will have to be around to count what's left of the beans.
teacher731
QUOTE(Istoodforu @ Dec 6 2004, 02:34 PM)
If these cuts take place, then drastic enrollment shortfalls will follow.  Teaching positions will be cut and the quality of instruction will be diluted.  The last cuts to be made, if at all, would be administrators' salaries.  I guess someone will have to be around to count what's left of the beans.
*



all part of shrub's plan to make us as ignorant as him!
PaineInTheArse
Question: How does $300M compare to the daily operating costs in Iraq?

=============================================

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/23/education/23pell.html

December 23, 2004
Students to Bear More of the Cost of College
By GREG WINTER

College students in virtually every state will be required to shoulder more of the cost of their education under new federal rules that govern most of the nation's financial aid.

Because of the changes, which take effect next fall and are expected to save the government $300 million in the 2005-6 academic year, at least 1.3 million students will receive smaller Pell Grants, the nation's primary scholarship for those of low income, according to two analyses of the new rules.

In addition, 89,000 students or so who would otherwise be getting some Pell Grant money will get none, the analyses found.

"Season's greetings from Uncle Sam," said Terry W. Hartle, senior vice president of the American Council on Education, which conducted one of the analyses and represents about 1,800 colleges and universities. "Your student aid stocking is going to be a little thinner next year."

Beyond the implications for Pell Grants, the new rules are expected to have a domino effect across almost every type of financial aid, tightening access to billions of dollars in state and institutional grants and, in turn, increasing the reliance on loans to pay for college. Taken together, many education experts say, the consequences for the nation's core financial aid programs are among the most substantial in a decade.

"This is the first time in at least 10 years where there's been a significant reduction for this magnitude of students," said Brian K. Fitzgerald, director of the Advisory Committee on Student Financial Assistance, which was created by Congress to advise the lawmakers on financial aid. It was this committee that performed the other analysis.

The changes are the denouement of a fight that has roiled Congress for more than 18 months. When the Bush administration first proposed altering financial aid rules last year, legislators stopped the revisions from taking hold, arguing that tough economic times meant students needed more help to attend college, not less.

But this year the administration found support from Congressional leaders seeking to constrain the cost of Pell Grants, an expense that has steadily increased as more low-income students go to college.

Even with the new rules, spending on Pell Grants, which could easily surpass $12 billion this fiscal year, may continue to increase, and the ranks of recipients will probably grow as well, because so many new students are applying for aid.

Without the changes, though, Pell Grant costs would be about $300 million higher than with them, according to figures from the White House Office of Management and Budget, since tens of thousands of additional students would be eligible for aid and hundreds of thousands more would receive larger awards.

Exactly how individual families will be affected depends greatly on their financial circumstances and on where they live. Parents who earn at least $15,000 will be negatively affected in every state except New Jersey and Connecticut. Those in states including New York, Massachusetts, Michigan, Delaware, Virginia, South Carolina and Wisconsin will be among the hardest hit.

Many may see their federal grants decline by only a few hundred dollars, or not at all, some financial aid experts estimate. Others can be expected to contribute significantly more.

Painful though it may be, supporters of the new rules say, trimming back on awards has its benefits, especially for future students.

Educators and lawmakers on all sides have long agreed that the maximum Pell Grant, currently set at $4,050 a year, is wholly inadequate given today's college costs. But, supporters of the changes say, unless there is a serious effort to scale back the program, whose costs have been exceeding lawmakers' appropriations for it, Congress may never be in a position to give larger awards to the poorest of students, who need them the most.

"There aren't any easy answers, and there are consequences for wrongly adding hundreds of millions of dollars to the current budget shortfall," said David Schnittger, spokesman for the Republican majority on the House Committee on Education and the Workforce.

The debate stems from a seemingly small alteration to the federal financial aid formula, a complicated equation that either directly governs or heavily influences distribution of federal, state and institutional aid. Its purpose is to determine how much of a family's income is truly discretionary and therefore fair game for covering college expenses.

Much as with the federal income tax, the formula allows families to deduct some of what they pay in state and local taxes. This year the administration gained enough Congressional backing to reduce that amount significantly, in some cases cutting it by half or more. On paper, at least, that leaves families with more money left over to pay for college, even though state and local taxes have gone up in the last few years, not down.

The Department of Education, which issues the financial aid formula, says it has no choice but to update the deductions periodically.

"We're required by law to do this, and we can't pick and choose which parts of the law to follow," said Susan Aspey, a department spokeswoman.

Ms. Aspey said by e-mail yesterday that about 80,000 additional students - not 89,000 as the two analyses determined - would be receiving grants if the changes had not been made. She also said that nearly half of the nation's 5.3 million Pell recipients would not be affected, though that would appear to leave the possibility that the number affected will be even higher than the 1.4 million estimated in the two analyses. Ms. Aspey could not be reached last night for elaboration.


In adjusting the formula, the department is relying on data from 2002, which may not fully reflect the economic difficulties that many families have faced since then. Department officials, however, say the new formula is a lot more accurate than the previous one, which was at least a decade old.

The enormous University of California, with campuses scattered across the state, estimates that at least half of its 46,000 Pell Grant recipients will face some sort of reduction as a result of the changes. At the other end of the spectrum, Knox College, a small liberal arts institution in Illinois, says the changes will most likely reach upward to affect the middle class as well.

"Of course we focus on the students who have the greatest need, but these families are needy, too," said Teresa Jackson, Knox's director of financial aid. "They can't just sit down and write a check for $30,000 a year. I can appreciate the difficulty with the budget, but my gosh, to cut back on financial aid given the times doesn't make a lot of sense."
Pie
This is disgusting news- typical of Bushco: let's keep the electorate ill-informed and uneducated.

Such short term thinking, though. The jobs available now require an education. So, will this come back to bite the repubs in the **se ? What happens when the ranks of the unemployed and unemployable rise even more ?

mad.gif
kindergarten teacher
Thursday, December 23, 2004 
 

California Educator
Volume 9, Issue 4
 
As waves of college students flood campuses throughout California over the next decade, the forecast for their future may be less than sunny. Some believe that a "perfect storm" looming on the horizon threatens California's higher education system.

http://www.cta.org/CaliforniaEducator/v9i4/Feature_1.htm

This poses a double wammy for our college bound students in California. How many other states are faced with this problem? Bush must put money into Education for the future of America!

 
barkeeper
QUOTE(Pie @ Dec 23 2004, 07:12 PM)
This is disgusting news-  typical of Bushco:  let's keep the electorate ill-informed and uneducated. 

Such short term thinking, though.  The jobs available now require an education.  So, will this come back to bite the repubs in the **se ?  What happens when the ranks of the unemployed and unemployable rise even more ? 

mad.gif

*

Ahem, uh seems the Washington Post, which ran this story 12/24 ran a "correction" 12/25. Seems there is a net increase of about 25,000 eligible students. The new rules do not so much cut funding, Pell Grants as structured are open ended budget items. If one qualifies, one gets the grant. If the gov't has to borrow to pay it, they do, which is why the program is running a $4 billion deficit.

The prime change is to update the baseline data from 1990 to 2002 as relate to state and local taxes assumed. Since most states have increased taxes in the last 12 years, this actually benefits most applicants.

Some students, as many as 85,000 may see grants reduced or cut out, but nearly all are from families in the top 5% of income, $35,000 to $40,000.

Now I get a bit personal. Step-daughter went to college ten years ago when our household income was about $25,000, no grant. We're not talking Harvard, but a good state university here. I would not dream of having the unmitigated gall to ask the gov't to pick my neighbor's pocket for my kid if I'm knocking down 30K+.

Sell the extra car, second mortgage, cut here, some part time there, and it wouldn't kill the kid to work a few hours a week, AFTER you've done all that come tell me your sad story. We just did that and nobody heard our sad story.
teacher731
QUOTE(barkeeper @ Dec 26 2004, 12:35 PM)
Ahem, uh seems the Washington Post, which ran this story 12/24 ran a "correction" 12/25. Seems there is a net increase of about 25,000 eligible students. The new rules do not so much cut funding, Pell Grants as structured are open ended budget items. If one qualifies, one gets the grant. If the gov't has to borrow to pay it, they do, which is why the program is running a $4 billion deficit.

The prime change is to update the baseline data from 1990 to 2002 as relate to state and local taxes assumed. Since most states have increased taxes in the last 12 years, this actually benefits most applicants.

Some students, as many as 85,000 may see grants reduced or cut out, but nearly all are from families in the top 5% of income, $35,000 to $40,000.

Now I get a bit personal. Step-daughter went to college ten years ago when our household income was about $25,000, no grant. We're not talking Harvard, but a good state university here. I would not dream of having the unmitigated gall to ask the gov't to pick my neighbor's pocket for my kid if I'm knocking down 30K+.

Sell the extra car, second mortgage, cut here, some part time there, and it wouldn't kill the kid to work a few hours a week, AFTER you've done all that come tell me your sad story. We just did that and nobody heard our sad story.
*


Tuition costs have skyrocketed since your stepdaugter went to school, while wages haven't kept up with the pace. then, of course you have the cost of living. If you have $30K in 2004 and have a family, you fit the poverty label. And, if you sell your car, how does one get to work, especially if one lives in a city and works in the burbs, another trend that has changed since your kid went to school. Sounds like Dad needs an education about real-life, 2004! :D
big sky brad
Man, they will do anything to line the pockets of the war machine CEO's!
flydangler
QUOTE(teacher731 @ Dec 27 2004, 05:57 PM)
Tuition costs have skyrocketed since your stepdaugter went to school, while wages haven't kept up with the pace.  then, of course you have the cost of living.
So, if I'm reading this correctly, methinks you're saying big sky brad was incorrect in saying "Man, they will do anything to line the pockets of the war machine CEO's!" and it's really the institutes of higher education that be gouging us? If tuition costs have risen so dramatically over the rates wages and cost of living have gone up methinks gouging be the only answer, eh? That certainly makes more sense.
kindergarten teacher
I got my neatoday magazine yesterday in the mail. This is an article on POST-ELECTION-WHAT NOW?

http://www.nea.org/neatoday/0501/election.html

Post-Election
January 2005

What Now?

The post-election bad news: budget woes, vouchers, and a blurred line between church and state. The good news: A golden opportunity to reshape the Republican Party.

The votes have been counted, the analyses rendered, the congrats passed along to newly re-elected President George W. Bush. Now, says NEA President Reg Weaver, the real work begins—and seeking common ground with the Administration in the name of great public schools tops the NEA agenda.

But first draw a deep breath. The President's own plan calls for, among other things, the partial privatization of Social Security, a fight to secure a role for faith-based charities in government programs, a renewed push for private tuition vouchers, and expansion of the so-called No Child Left Behind law (NCLB), including more high-stakes testing in high schools.

More daunting: Public education, which barely surfaced as a voter concern in November, must compete head-on in the next budget with other domestic programs, to a backdrop of record budget deficits, supplemental appropriations for the Iraq war, and Administration plans to extend existing federal tax cuts.

Not bleak enough? NEA chief lobbyist Randy Moody says labor organizations, which largely backed the presidential candidacy of John Kerry, can likely expect anti-union legislation, microscopic federal audits, and Administration attempts to privatize government work "at every opportunity."

But Moody, a longtime Republican, says NEA members don't have to accept the rightward drift of GOP policies. NEA Republicans, who comprise one-third of the Association membership, need to become much more active in the GOP, "from the precinct level up to change this from a party with an anti-public education majority to one with a pro-public education majority."

A precedent for this realignment already exists in Congress, Moody points out. Republican (and Democratic) moderates have consistently opposed school vouchers and "realized the importance of federal education programs; they don't want to see them dry up," he notes. "They recognize how federal support for Title I and special education programs are key to the financial solvency of states and school districts." NEA will build on that bipartisan support in the GOP-dominated 109th Congress by lobbying in these key areas:

Federal funding. Push to maximize federal funding for public education, particularly for Title I, IDEA, teacher quality, Pell Grants, E-Rate, and other critical programs. Work to block any newly proposed subsidies of private and religious K–12 education and minimize further erosion of the federal government's overall revenue-raising capacity.

No Child Left Behind law. Advance a proactive agenda in anticipation of Administration high school "reform" efforts and the congressional reauthorization of NCLB in 2007. Seek funding needed to effectively implement NCLB requirements and work to alter the definition of "highly qualified teacher" to include teachers with full licensure/certification under state standards. Work to give states more flexibility in measuring schools' "adequate yearly progress" and in applying sanctions to schools identified as needing improvement. Seek provisions that would require supplemental service providers to fully comply with federal civil rights laws and that would require states and local school districts to fully fund the costs of testing, continuing education, and training of paraeducators seeking to meet new quality standards.

Vouchers. Fight to block passage of measures that would divert public resources to private, religious, or home school K–12 use. Fight any nationwide voucher or voucher demonstration program and any federal tax credits or deductions for private, religious, or home school K–12 expenses. Work to "defund" vouchers for District of Columbia schools.
barkeeper
QUOTE(flydangler @ Dec 31 2004, 05:10 PM)
So, if I'm reading this correctly, methinks you're saying big sky brad was incorrect in saying "Man, they will do anything to line the pockets of the war machine CEO's!" and it's really the institutes of higher education that be gouging us? If tuition costs have risen so dramatically over the rates wages and cost of living have gone up methinks gouging be the only answer, eh? That certainly makes more sense.
*

Actually, there is a considerable evidence that too free a hand with both Pell grants and Student Loans have exacerbated the cost spiral especially so in upscale institutions. From the university's point of view this is all free money, why do they care if the former student starts his professional life $100,000 or more in debt, they got theirs, up front.

One symptom is the number of tenured professors who spend little or no actual classroom time, and God forbid they waste any of that on an undergrad. Prime example would be Maya Angelou, of Clinton inauguration fame. Whatever one thinks of her politics or her poetry, she put a first class raping on Wake Forest, barely deigning to even walk through a class in session, but getting six figures to adorn Wake's letterhead.

Actually, going back to "teacher 731", I could still manage to put the kid through our local state school, it never got in the bidding wars for marquee names and its tuition has increased, but not "spiraled". Still good enough to have served quite a few prominent people. Also, when we sold the car we didn't walk, we sold the third car and traded another down to a reliable older model, which incidentally, I still drive.

Call me old fashioned, but I cannot justify to myself asking the gov't to pick my neighbor's pocket so I can do as I like and not have to trade in the new minivan.
teacher731
QUOTE(flydangler @ Dec 31 2004, 06:10 PM)
So, if I'm reading this correctly, methinks you're saying big sky brad was incorrect in saying "Man, they will do anything to line the pockets of the war machine CEO's!" and it's really the institutes of higher education that be gouging us? If tuition costs have risen so dramatically over the rates wages and cost of living have gone up methinks gouging be the only answer, eh? That certainly makes more sense.
*

methinks you misunderstood what me said, so let me repeat it- tuition costs have risen dramatically since the 80s(even at public institutions) and it's also a fact that wages have stagnated in this country. the original poster stated his belief that all things considered, if you just add another job, get rid of the car, etal, you can do like he did and not rely on Uncle Sam to help pay for the privilege of higher education, which we all know, is the best way to improve your way of living (and you may learn something too). methinks the original poster is living in a world that is no longer reality. does this poster now understand? me hopes so cause I can't make it any simpler! lol.gif
teacher731
QUOTE(barkeeper @ Dec 31 2004, 07:21 PM)
Actually, there is a considerable evidence that too free a hand with both Pell grants and Student Loans have exacerbated the cost spiral especially so in upscale institutions. From the university's point of view this is all free money, why do they care if the former student starts his professional life $100,000 or more in debt, they got theirs, up front.

One symptom is the number of tenured professors who spend little or no actual classroom time, and God forbid they waste any of that on an undergrad. Prime example would be Maya Angelou, of Clinton inauguration fame. Whatever one thinks of her politics or her poetry, she put a first class raping on Wake Forest, barely deigning to even walk through a class in session, but getting six figures to adorn Wake's letterhead.

Actually, going back to "teacher 731", I could still manage to put the kid through our local state school, it never got in the bidding wars for marquee names and its tuition has increased, but not "spiraled". Still good enough to have served quite a few prominent people. Also, when we sold the car we didn't walk, we sold the third car and traded another down to a reliable older model, which incidentally, I still drive.

Call me old fashioned, but I cannot justify to myself asking the gov't to pick my neighbor's pocket so I can do as I like and not have to trade in the new minivan.
*


then it's your right as an American not to have this help, however, you don't speak for everyone. There are many poor, working class, and middle class families that can use this help. No one should deny them this opportunity. What we should call is for a rollback of the expensive, wealthy class-targeting, deficit busting Ayatollah Shrub tax cuts.
flydangler
QUOTE(teacher731 @ Dec 31 2004, 09:15 PM)
does this poster now understand?
Actually no, since you never bothered to address my question. Why is tuition rising at a greater pace than wages and the cost of living if it's not gouging by institutes of higher education? Methinks, judging by the moniker you've chosen, that education is your field, that be the reason I asked. Instead of the teacher actually addressing what I asked 'twere a barkeeper, does that make sense? If the barkeeper was correct so be it, that be all I wanted to know.
barkeeper
QUOTE(flydangler @ Dec 31 2004, 08:50 PM)
Actually no, since you never bothered to address my question. Why is tuition rising at a greater pace than wages and the cost of living if it's not gouging by institutes of higher education? Methinks, judging by the moniker you've chosen, that education is your field, that be the reason I asked. Instead of the teacher actually addressing what I asked 'twere a barkeeper, does that make sense? If the barkeeper was correct so be it, that be all I wanted to know.
*

Just to join in the tenor of debate, methinks it possible that barkeepers day by day might deal with a bit more reality than teachers. Happy New Year to all!
Accountable
rolleyes.gif
QUOTE(barkeeper @ Dec 31 2004, 10:12 PM)
Just to join in the tenor of debate, methinks it possible that barkeepers day by day might deal with a bit more reality than teachers. Happy New Year to all!
*


Me thinks that barkeepers deal with those attempting to ESCAPE reality. I'm not a teacher, but I still refer to ideas and challenges made by teachers many years ago during my educational years. If more young people have access , and if that access is assisted by Pell Grants, then it should be supported.
rla
We need to get rid of the Bush Lite leadership, take back the Democratic
Party, and start making proposals that could make a difference and get students and working people excited about politics:
universal health care
4 years universal public education after high school
teacher731
QUOTE(barkeeper @ Dec 31 2004, 11:12 PM)
Just to join in the tenor of debate, methinks it possible that barkeepers day by day might deal with a bit more reality than teachers. Happy New Year to all!
*


while you may deal with a larger percentage of alcoholics than I do, let me tell you something about being a teacher in an urban school, you see the sides of American life that don't get reported, I can't say I've seen it all cause then I will see something completely new. We are seeing the firsthand effects of poverty, budget slashing, the disasterous NCLB, and of course the fact that this country does not care about its children(lip service just doesn't cut it) on a daily basis. Now, that's an education and a reality you can't get serving martinis. lol.gif

Everytime education is cut, a child suffers. Like the saying goes, "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." Speaking of my kids, govt assistance, such as the Pell grant will make a positive difference in their lives. When that assistance gets slashed so Mr. billionaire can stop paying taxes, another opportunity to advance oneself vanishes. The same peopel calling for these cuts seem to have their priorites out of whack: funding grants and providing aid to education is less expensive than funding a single prisoner, which now amounts to a whopping $40,000 a year; heck for that money, think of all the kids wwe could send to college!!
teacher731
QUOTE(Accountable @ Jan 1 2005, 01:07 PM)
rolleyes.gif

Me thinks that barkeepers deal with those attempting to ESCAPE reality. I'm not a teacher, but I still refer to ideas and challenges made by teachers many years ago during my educational years. If more young people have access , and if that access is assisted by Pell Grants, then it should be supported.
*


Thank you! the mark of a great teacher is not only determined by what you learn during the school year, but it also what you learn about life.
teacher731
QUOTE(flydangler @ Dec 31 2004, 09:50 PM)
Actually no, since you never bothered to address my question. Why is tuition rising at a greater pace than wages and the cost of living if it's not gouging by institutes of higher education? Methinks, judging by the moniker you've chosen, that education is your field, that be the reason I asked. Instead of the teacher actually addressing what I asked 'twere a barkeeper, does that make sense? If the barkeeper was correct so be it, that be all I wanted to know.
*



What you need to do, as I would tell my students who ask questions, is to do your research: you need to answer your own question and claim which is that tuition costs have skyrocketed because of colleges gouging.
ultraist
QUOTE(barkeeper @ Dec 26 2004, 11:35 AM)
Some students, as many as 85,000 may see grants reduced or cut out, but nearly all are from families in the top 5% of income, $35,000 to $40,000.

Now I get a bit personal. Step-daughter went to college ten years ago when our household income was about $25,000, no grant. We're not talking Harvard, but a good state university here. I would not dream of having the unmitigated gall to ask the gov't to pick my neighbor's pocket for my kid if I'm knocking down 30K+.

Sell the extra car, second mortgage, cut here, some part time there, and it wouldn't kill the kid to work a few hours a week, AFTER you've done all that come tell me your sad story. We just did that and nobody heard our sad story.
*


lol.gif When was the top 5%, $35,000-$40,000? In the sixties? That income range is not even the median of MIDDLE CLASS! That range is LOWER MIDDLE CLASS. The top five percent is well over $200,000! FACT CHECK YOUR INACCURATE NUMBERS ON THE US CENSUS BUREAU WEBSITE.

Since you offered your personal numbers, how did you pay your mortgage, health insurance, property taxes, property insurance, food, clothes, utilities, car payment, car insurance, etc. AND pay college tuition for your daughter on $25,000 per year? How much was the tuition, books and fees per year? Or did you take out GOV'T guaranteed loans?

The low end of tuition at public universities today, is around ten grand a year. That would leave a whoping fifteen grand a year for the rest of the family to survive. But, since that is POVERTY level, that family could qualify for food stamps and AFDC. I suppose that could forgo health insurance as well, as 45 million other Americans do.
ultraist
QUOTE(Accountable @ Jan 1 2005, 12:07 PM)
rolleyes.gif

Me thinks that barkeepers deal with those attempting to ESCAPE reality. I'm not a teacher, but I still refer to ideas and challenges made by teachers many years ago during my educational years. If more young people have access , and if that access is assisted by Pell Grants, then it should be supported.
*


Now why should the government open doors to educational opportunity for economically underprivileged students when they can just track them right into the military?
teacher731
QUOTE(ultraist @ Jan 1 2005, 05:04 PM)
lol.gif  When was the top 5%, $35,000-$40,000? In the sixties? That income range is not even the median of MIDDLE CLASS! That range is LOWER MIDDLE CLASS. The top five percent is well over $200,000! FACT CHECK YOUR INACCURATE NUMBERS ON THE US CENSUS BUREAU WEBSITE.

Since you offered your personal numbers, how did you pay your mortgage, health insurance, property taxes, property insurance, food, clothes, utilities, car payment, car insurance, etc. AND pay college tuition for your daughter on $25,000 per year? How much was the tuition, books and fees per year? Or did you take out GOV'T guaranteed loans?

The low end of tuition at public universities today, is around ten grand a year. That would leave a whoping fifteen grand a year for the rest of the family to survive. But, since that is POVERTY level, that family could qualify for food stamps and AFDC. I suppose that could forgo health insurance as well, as 45 million other Americans do.
*

and without that car, where would they live?! lol.gif
flydangler
QUOTE(teacher731 @ Jan 1 2005, 04:46 PM)
What you need to do, as I would tell my students who ask questions, is to do your research:  you need to answer your own question and claim which is that tuition costs have skyrocketed because of colleges gouging
It wasn't a claim, just a question based on something you'd said. I thought maybe you had some insight or information I hadn't yet seen. Methinks either I was wrong, or you don't have a clue either. Your response was similar to those I've seen from teachers who knew not of what they spoke.
barkeeper
QUOTE(teacher731 @ Jan 1 2005, 03:41 PM)
while you may deal with a larger percentage of alcoholics than I do, let me tell you something about being a teacher in an urban school, you see the sides of American life that don't get reported, I can't say I've seen it all cause then I will see something completely new.  We are seeing the firsthand effects of poverty, budget slashing, the disasterous NCLB, and of course the fact that this country does not care about its children(lip service just doesn't cut it) on a daily basis.  Now, that's an education and a reality you can't get serving martinis. lol.gif

Everytime education is cut, a child suffers.  Like the saying goes, "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."  Speaking of my kids, govt assistance, such as the Pell grant will make a positive difference in their lives.  When that assistance gets slashed so Mr. billionaire can stop paying taxes, another opportunity to advance oneself vanishes.  The same peopel calling for these cuts seem to have their priorites out of whack:  funding grants and providing aid to education is less expensive than funding a single prisoner, which now amounts to a whopping $40,000 a year; heck for that money, think of all the kids wwe could send to college!!
*

Seems I cut a little close to home, yes? By the numbers:"budget slashing", the overall budget and numbers of students eligible for grants has increased, and by the way, ultraist, the "top 5%" was percentage of those eligible for grants, not total pop and I stand by that. At the time daughter was in school, teacher 7, tuition et al cost us just north of $5,000 a year, I checked recently and that would now be about $6,500, same university. Tight budget, yes; possible without loans or public largesse, also yes.

Not to be rude teacher, but barkeeper can spell "people", "priorities", "disastrous" and "we"; barkeeper knows that if one capitalizes "Mr." one should also capitalize "Billionaire", and that "one's self" is properly two words. This is all quite unfair of me; barkeeper did not suffer a college education that emphasized education theory over the subject matter to be taught, a priority that barkeeper does find to have been disastrous for the young people subjected to its output.

Barkeeper does think that by one route or another, any qualified child should have access to post-secondary education, but "qualified" no longer seems to have any real meaning. In barkeeper's day college freshmen did not spend their first year in remedial classes learning things they should have mastered in high school.

Rla, Barkeeper does not think that 4 years universal public education after high school should be a given. When son graduated high school, he had no interest in further academics. He followed his path and is now happy as a supervisor in an auto repair shop doing something he does like.

Just by the bye, barkeeper has almost always done that as a second job, along with computer operation, carpentery, driving and whatever else lets barkeeper pay the bills and still pursue the real hobbies; writing and politics.

In closing to all and sundry, do NOT, without having been there, DO NOT denigrate your local barkeep. I have waited on and chatted with a spectrum of humanity that ranges from common drunks, to a sitting state Governer, to US Senators, and I still get Christmas cards from some of them. If you think the full measure of a man is defined by his occupation or his income, I will suggest you are less "liberal and progressive" than you like to think yourselves.
barkeeper
My apologies teacher 731, I must be getting tired and sloppy. "Everytime" is definitely two words. As a truly talented 10th grade English teacher metaphorically beat into our heads, "like" is not a synonym of "as". Out of curiosity, does anyone this side of William Safire even recognise, let alone teach the gerund case?
ultraist
QUOTE(barkeeper @ Jan 1 2005, 11:00 PM)
Seems I cut a little close to home, yes? By the numbers:"budget slashing", the overall budget  and numbers of students eligible for grants has increased, and by the way, ultraist, the "top 5%" was percentage of those eligible for grants, not total pop and I stand by that. At the time daughter was in school, teacher 7, tuition et al cost us just north of $5,000 a year, I checked recently and that would now be about $6,500, same university. Tight budget, yes; possible without loans or public largesse, also yes.

Not to be rude teacher, but barkeeper can spell "people", "priorities", "disastrous" and "we"; barkeeper knows that if one capitalizes "Mr." one should also capitalize "Billionaire", and that "one's self" is properly two words. This is all quite unfair of me; barkeeper did not suffer a college education that emphasized education theory over the subject matter to be taught, a priority that barkeeper does find to have been disastrous for the young people subjected to its output.

Barkeeper does think that by one route or another, any qualified child should have access to post-secondary education, but "qualified" no longer seems to have any real meaning. In barkeeper's day college freshmen did not spend their first year in remedial classes learning things they should have mastered in high school.  

Rla, Barkeeper does not think that 4 years universal public education after high school should be a given. When son graduated high school, he had no interest in further academics. He followed his path and is now happy as a supervisor in an auto repair shop doing something he does like.

Just by the bye, barkeeper has almost always done that as a second job, along with computer operation, carpentery, driving and whatever else lets barkeeper pay the bills and still pursue the real hobbies; writing and politics.

In closing to all and sundry, do NOT, without having been there, DO NOT denigrate your local barkeep. I have waited on and chatted with a spectrum of humanity that ranges from common drunks, to a sitting state Governer, to  US Senators, and I still get Christmas cards from some of them. If you think the full measure of a man is defined by his occupation or his income, I will suggest you are less "liberal and progressive" than you like to think yourselves.
*


If you paid all of your bills and the tuition (you didn't list books/fees) your mortgage must have been REALLY low.

I don't think anyone has stated that "a full measure of a man is his occupation or income."

BTW, your use of the semicolon is incorrect. wink.gif Also, your use of et al is incorrect. I just thought I'd point that out since you are correcting grammatical errors in others' posts. :D

We don't really get uptight about typos around here, so don't sweat it. smile.gif
barkeeper
QUOTE(ultraist @ Jan 1 2005, 11:18 PM)
If you paid all of your bills and the tuition (you didn't list books/fees) your mortgage must have been REALLY low.

I don't think anyone has stated that "a full measure of a man is his occupation or income."

BTW, your use of the semicolon is incorrect.  wink.gif Also, your use of et al is incorrect. I just thought I'd point that out since you are correcting grammatical errors in others' posts.  :D

We don't really get uptight about typos around here, so don't sweat it.  smile.gif
*

Mortgage was and is about $400 a month, got a good deal in a small city. OK, et al should have been etc. which might have more clearly included books/fees, which we did pay. Semicolon, my read is, arguable, primarily used for emphasis in this instance. No one used the quote "measure of a man", but I think you would have to agree references to "alcoholics" and "escape reality" were less than respectful of the job.
teacher731
QUOTE(barkeeper @ Jan 2 2005, 02:35 PM)
Mortgage was and is about $400 a month, got a good deal in a small city. OK, et al should have been etc. which might have more clearly included books/fees, which we did pay. Semicolon, my read is, arguable, primarily used for emphasis in this instance. No one used the quote "measure of a man", but I think you would have to agree references to "alcoholics" and "escape reality" were less than respectful of the job.
*



the thing that's getting lost here is the fact that the Pell Grant primarily benefits students who come from low-income households. if this program is gutted or cut, these kids may not realize their full potential and that's an awful waste. we already have a high prison population (where ironically they get many of the things denied to them as free citizens by this fraud of a govt), and we don't need to add to that. And, they shouldn't have to suffer in a dead-end job with a dead-end company like WalFart or Mickie D's.
kindergarten teacher
Federal funding. Push to maximize federal funding for public education, particularly for Title I, IDEA, teacher quality, Pell Grants, E-Rate, and other critical programs. Work to block any newly proposed subsidies of private and religious K–12 education and minimize further erosion of the federal government's overall revenue-raising capacity.


How DOES the federal government do revenue-raising? Why or how is it being eroded? This is an area I know nothing about.

KT
ultraist
QUOTE(kindergarten teacher @ Jan 3 2005, 09:03 PM)
Federal funding. Push to maximize federal funding for public education, particularly for Title I, IDEA, teacher quality, Pell Grants, E-Rate, and other critical programs. Work to block any newly proposed subsidies of private and religious K–12 education and minimize further erosion of the federal government's overall revenue-raising capacity.
How DOES the federal government do revenue-raising?  Why or how is it being eroded?  This is an area I know nothing about.

KT
*


I think more money could come from both a local level & federal for public education. Raising property taxes has worked well in many areas and the areas with the highest property taxes have the best schools.

They could also increase inheritance taxes and capital gains to generate money on a federal level.

Both of the increases would hit the wealthiest the hardest. The majority of property taxes come from corporations and landlords. The middle and lower classes rarely pay capital gains or inheritance taxes anyway.
ultraist
QUOTE(barkeeper @ Jan 2 2005, 01:35 PM)
Mortgage was and is about $400 a month, got a good deal in a small city. OK, et al should have been etc. which might have more clearly included books/fees, which we did pay. Semicolon, my read is, arguable, primarily used for emphasis in this instance. No one used the quote "measure of a man", but I think you would have to agree references to "alcoholics" and "escape reality" were less than respectful of the job.
*


I agree, it was a backhanded dig on your job. That is a very low mortgage payment. You are in a good position with that. Most people who pay that are renters who dump their money each month into a landlord's investment to live in a studio apartment.
teacher731
QUOTE(kindergarten teacher @ Jan 3 2005, 10:03 PM)
Federal funding. Push to maximize federal funding for public education, particularly for Title I, IDEA, teacher quality, Pell Grants, E-Rate, and other critical programs. Work to block any newly proposed subsidies of private and religious K–12 education and minimize further erosion of the federal government's overall revenue-raising capacity.
How DOES the federal government do revenue-raising?  Why or how is it being eroded?  This is an area I know nothing about.

KT
*

The ultra right-wing of the Republican party and present administration have many things in common, but especially this one: they don't like federal programs that work, such as Headstart, pell grants, and now the scare and fear tactics used to make us worried that social security is about to bust. remember, this is coming from a guy who assured us that there were WMD designed to kill us, and uses God's name in vain everytime to justify his insanity.
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