Things just got very interesting in Ohio.
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Things just got very interesting in Ohio.
« on: Today at 10:40:11pm »

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12/3/04
rtsp://video.c-span.org/project/c04/c04_wj120204_arnebeck.rm WATCH THE VIDEO FROM C-SPAN ABOUT THE RECOUNT IN OHIO!!!!!!


Things just got very interesting in Ohio.

While the Kerry campaign is certainly keeping an eye on the situation in Ohio, it seems some laywers are getting some real results. A great Daily Kos diary (note this page now takes quote a while to load, so I have put most of the information here) alerted me to an interview on C-Span today where my new hero, Cliff Arnebeck (bio), an attorney for Alliance for Democracy, who is going to file a suit sometime between Friday and Monday. They only have until Monday to recount and finish this up because, under federal law, December 13 is when the members of the Electoral College cast their votes.

This might be why why Blackwell keeps delaying the certification of Ohio's vote. Mr Blackwell is playing a dual role as Ohio’s Secretary of State (and thus its chief electoral official) and as Co-Chairman of the Bush-Cheney reelection campaign there. As the Rev. Al Sharpton puts it "We need to investigate, coordinate, litigate, recount and recuse," he said, referring to the legitimacy of the Ohio vote. "Mr. Blackwell cannot be both the owner of the team and the umpire." Blackwell has gotten some unwanted attention on this issue. Just recently Conyers and other House Judiciary Democrats asked Blackwell to explain alleged Ohio election Irregularities. (PDF) This document is a MUST READ for anyone interested in preserving Democracy. Pa** it on to everyone you know. They are asking him to explain the following:



Why did Warren County officials exclude members of the press from observing vote counting on election night, claiming an FBI agent had warned of a terrorist threat that was a "10" on a scale of one to ten, but the FBI has no knowledge of such a warning?

Why did precincts in Perry County apparently record more votes than voters?

Why did Butler County and a number of other counties record more votes for an underfunded Democratic candidate for State Supreme Court than were recorded for the Democratic Presidential candidate?

Why did historically Democratic precincts in Cleveland record up to twenty-two times more votes for the Constitution Party Presidential candidate than all third-party candidates combined received in the 2000 election?

Why did voters in Mahong County report that when they attempted to record a vote for John Kerry their vote was displayed as being cast for George W. Bush?

Why did there appear to be a shortage of voting machines in traditionally Democratic precincts on election day, causing up to ten hour delays for voters, while there was an apparent surplus of voting machines in traditionally Republican precincts?



But I digress. Back to Mr. Arnebeck....

What Arnebeck is doing here is important. He is not demanding a recount. He is saying that he HAS EVIDENCE that the election result in Ohio is wrong. Let that sink in. Evidence of fraud that could overturn the election results. This is big. Mr. Arnebeck claims that he has proof that the Ohio election result is actually the opposite of what has been reported. His proof will show that Kerry won 51% of the vote in Ohio.

Listen for yourself. Go to http://www.cspan.org/ under "Recent Programs" and click on "Washington Journal Entire Program (12/02/04)", if you cant find it there try this:

Open Real Player, go to open location, and put in this URL:

rtsp://video.c-span.org/project/c04/c04_wj120204_arnebeck.rm

Now I just tried it and the servers over there are being hit hard so here is the relevant bit from a transcript:


"The only logical explanation is that there was a movement of some 65,000 votes or so that were cast for Kerry into the Bush column. Which created a margin that is approximately the total margin by which Bush was reported to have won Ohio. So our current view of the evidence is that this is where the fix occurred.

There were a variety of other problems in the election. There was the suppression of black voters in Franklin Co. by shorting machines in black and high Democratic performance districts. There was what we would call a precinct shuffle in Summit Co. and Cuyahuga Co. where a deliberate confusion was created about where people could vote. They cast their provisional ballots...there were election officials were telling them that they could vote in any precinct of the county and it would be counted. And then you've got Blackwell saying they won't be counted.

Our present feeling is that this is, while a serious conspiracy to violate the civil rights of a protected cla** of voters namely those of the black race, that this is not where the real fix occurred. This is something we will discuss in the lawsuit, but we intend to focus very, to hone in very aggressively in full tilt litigation with full discovery on what we believe is the fraud that occurred in the southern part of the state with the shift of votes.

Look at the two races. In effect the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court race is a benchmark race for the presidential race because both of these races were competitive, they were running neck and neck. All right so this gives you a basis to say "all right what happened in this situation and how does it relate to the other, the benchmark." Now a more ingenious approach might have been if you're going to do this you should have made the adjustment also in the Supreme Court race too, so this wouldn't stand out. This stands out like a sore thumb.

I think what happened is, all this civil rights violation was a red herring intended to stimulate the public interest groups and civil rights organizations to hone in on this, on this horrendous, horrendous attack on the rights of black voters. They thought that's what we would go after, the clock would run out, we wouldn't be able to prove our case. The real fraud occurred in this switching of votes in southern Ohio. That's our present view of the evidence."

The old bait and switch. Smells like Rove to me.Please forward this information LIBERALY!

First of all, in order for this to be a reality Blackwell needs to be removed completely. He like the other guy should be jailed and with enough witnesses stepping up, he will be. We have not seen enough witnesses yet. Get everyone out there who is enraged at Blackwell to stand up and fight!!!!

He deserves no leeway whatsoever, needs to go down, and the judge who sides with him be investigated. That's the only hope the crew has of stopping the Ohio election.

Things are getting more and more interesting everyday! The letter to Blackwell, the lawsuits

Its a win - win situation. In the worst case scenario, Kerry won't win but FRAUD will be exposed!

And in the best scenario . . . I can't let myself get my hopes up that high...

Wow. :o

Listen...!! about 34 minutes in! WOW.... if nothing else...... it's good to hear this was on "the news".... if this counts.

PRAY HARD TONIGHT!!!!!

No... wait.... it should have started today......

He won't say "stolen"....... but it looks like he wants to... "there is evidence of fraudulent activity" This is not about the provisional votes. Those would add to the margin of victory. Election challenge is about the outcome.

He said they have evidence of irregularities that allowed 100,000 votes cast for Kerry to migrate to Bush's column. They will litigate deadlines. He isn't talking about over or under votes. I hope this isn't based on exit polls, but he stood up for exit polls so hopefully they won't disappear as litmus test for elections.

If this is really going to happen there are going to be some really pissed off people.

I agree. Thanks for all the updating. Even if the election doesn't change I at least hope the people who had a hand in this get charged cause it takes away our freedom of democracy. How can we spread democracy in Iraq if we can't have it here? Oly one thing pops into my head. <_<

But you KNOW they're not doing more than controlled democracy in Iraq....

Sure want the real thing back here!

Nobody should allow these sick freaks to control democracy in IRAQ EVER!!!!!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o

There have been some other posts about Arnebeck. I can't get this to load, so I'm not sure, is this different, or more than Arnebeck has claimed in the past? Did he file the suit yesterday or is he waiting til Monday?

I wonder if he really does have proof or simply more circumstantial guessing. Don't get me wrong.......... I think there was fraud in favor of Republican candidates and I am becoming convienced that it has been going on for years. Just in Ohio alone, things like a candidate for State Supreme Court getting more votes than Kerry or seeing twenty-two times more votes for the Constitution Party Presidential candidate than all third-party candidates combined received in the 2000 election stink to high heaven and throw up all sorts of red flags. It's why I have this growing feeling in the pit of my stomach that much of the "conservative shift" that has supposedly happened over the last few years is another red flag. There have been too many unexpected and unexplained last minute shift in voting results to be natural across the nation.

But the thing is that none of this is proof. It's lots and lots of very conviencing indications of fraud and of deliberate plans to steal elections. There is too much that says 'this stopped making sense ages ago'. BUT there isn't any "THERE! Those votes were counted for Bush when they were cast for Kerry" or "THERE! There is the fraud". You know?

Except........ what kind of proof could he have???? I pray that someone, somewhere has something because I'm sure it's there. I just hope this isn't more "look at all these red flags".

We need proof. GOD, we need proof.

And I wish that someone could explain why it's okay for someone as clearly vested in the outcome and clearly partisian as Blackwell to run things. WHY WHY WHY was that allowed in the first place?????

May I suggest you go here: http://www.nov3.us/billofrights

To be effective, we must take COLLECTIVE action to get OUR VOICE HEARD in establishing "fair and effective election reform".

We must push OUR OWN agenda...if you leave it up to the legislaturers...it will be crap again!

also, I just heard on Air America that Kerry is joining the lawsuit on the Ohio Vote recount

Thanks Rhonda!

I'm not sure that is enough for Kerry to just join the lawsuit. He needs to unconcede. The stink needs to be aired out in the open. We need press and headlines.

Cliff Arneback really does have a whole ton of evidence...He also knows Blackwell works for Accenture!!!!!

What letter to Blackwell??? What did I miss? Please someone, take pity on me, I'm exhausted; I've worked two weeks straight 70 hour weeks without a single day off; I'd appreciate someone just telling me for once because I don't have the energy to search.

Congress wrote an authorized letter backed also by some republicans to remove Blackwell alltogether, get him under investigation from every direction. He's already been sued by three civil rights groups, is trying to buff off the situation and calls Jackson a dog catcher. If Karl Rove doesn't bail his butt out, Blackwell is going to be up the creek without a paddle.....Imagine that

You know, if they're planning on filing lawsuits, then they wouldn't want to reveal too much evidence, you know what I mean? Why make the other side's work that much easier. I'm slightly optimistic when I say, maybe there's a reason we haven't seen hard core proof. Keeps 'em on the edge.

My hero !! thanks for helping a poor gal out (who is quickly working her way to an early death)! This is a very interesting development. What's the source?

so did Arnebeck's group file today as promised yesterday? I don't see anything here on the web.

I had the same question. I think I read he might file on Monday. What do allegations of fraud do to the electors in Ohio? Will they be able to cast their votes?

I've been asking the same question without any answers.

This requires a Constitutional lawyer. God rest the souls of Sam Ervin and Archibald Cox.

And, I keep asking whether a recount would really help, if there is fraud. You'd end up counting the phony votes all over again. But, what kind of constitutional crisis will we have if fraud is proven a year from now?

Know any good constitutional lawyers????

I am no lawyer but i hope to be. Anyway, I believe that a few things could possiably happen but don't hold me to this.

1. The courts could give the 20 electoral votes to kerry.
2. Congress could decide the election
3. The electoral votes from ohio wouldn't count
4. There could be a revote
5. There could be a popular uprising to kick out bush and install kerry(that is the fun one)

It would have to be one of those. I am just hoping that this recount or the law suits expose the voter fraud that did happen in ohio and possiably other places.

Okay, I like number 5, if I can't have number 1!!

I like 1, 4, and 5


Number 4 would be like the Ukraine. Can you imagine the headlines?

We may never known if the 2004 election was stolen. However, the fact that it could have been stolen, and the fact that there are a lack of safeguards to insure a reliable vote count destroys voter confidence which is essential in a democratic system. The fact that the Republicans have stonewalled a bill requiring paper ballots and banning propriearty software from voting machines places the blame directly with the GOP, and therefore they are guilty by inaction, guilty of failure to uphold our democratic system.

Voter Confidence and Increased Accessibility Act of 2003, which was introduced to the House in May 2003 by Rush Holt (D-NJ). The bill would require electronic voting machines that currently don't offer a paper trail, such as touch-screen voting machines, to produce a receipt. The receipts would allow voters to verify that a machine recorded their vote correctly and would be used as an audit trail in case of a computer malfunction or other election irregularity. ..In addition to a voter-verified receipt, the bill would ban the use of wireless communication devices, such as cell phones and wireless modems, to transfer votes from voting machines to election precincts. It would ban the use of undisclosed software in voting systems. This means voting machine companies would have to make their software code open to public scrutiny on request.

And the Democrats are guilty of not making this an election issue, of not demanding basic safeguards to prevent fraud or the preception of fraud. How is it that so-called 3rd world developing countries like Mexico and India have more secure voting systems than the United States? How is that when fraud is preceived, the challenging party in the Ukraine, and the voters of the Ukraine, demand a new election and get it? Will there be a "popular uprising" in the US? This country hasn't had a popular uprising since the Boston Tea Party, but you never know.

Facts:

Diebold, one of three manufacturers of voting machines in the US, also makes ATM machines, some of the most secure machines made in the world, and these machines give paper receipts.

Proprietary software: how difficult is it to write a program which counts votes. This is probably one of the simpliest programs on earth and any company which claims this as proprietary is obviously got something to hide besides a program which basically reads: n + 1 when a vote is tallied.

I should qualify my statement about a popular uprising. We haven't had a successful popular uprising since the Boston Tea Party.

It's time. Get the news out of the ralley to Ohio Big Cities and news media!

Only 400 in O-H-I-O yesterday.

God bless those 400!

Sigh..

Any word on the filing by Arnebeck? Any word on the certification of Ohio's count?
Is is just a coincidence that the consulate in Saudi was attacked a little while ago and Bush is being heavily quoted about "terrorists on the move???"

ARRRGGHH. I want my country back!

Yes, I had the same thoughts when I heard of the attack in Saudi.

And, no word on the suit yet or the certification. Anyone have news?

"Wow" is right...

Wouldn't it be nice to be John Kerry right now....

God Bless America!

- perry