Do you really think our discussion here makes it to MSNBC or PBS or CBS News?

No, but those who think they can strongarm candidates tend to make their voices heard on their blogs, the destruction is still done.

Tell me something Arne, did you ever wonder about the Reverend Wright who had cancelled a number of appearances suddenly making an about face and start makng speeches? And the speeches he made were obviously made containing content which would be widely held to be offensive? And those same speeches would reflect badly upon Barrack Obama who up to that point had been supportive of the Reverend Wright?

Arne, that was an orchestrated plan for Obama to have the chance to disavow the Reverend Wright to get Barrack Obama out of a little hot water. Why should we expect this gaff by Jesse Jackson not to be more of the same?

Maybe you should check the facts then, Dukakis was ahead by 17 points at this time before the election.

I think that we can influence Obama, if we approach him like we were really supporters, or really outsiders, not professed supporters who make constant demands with the implied threat that he better agree...or else. As long as we keep that distinction in mind then I would not be hesitant to lobby him or organize behind certain causes. Politicians listen to that kind of thing.

But we cannot do that with a puffed up idea of how our important our particular little political tendency is. No, none of our little groups, communities or whatever constitutes "the people", just a section of it.

Did you watch the facial expressions and body language when Wright made the speeches? If you think it was orchestrated instead of pure ego you can't read a face to save your life.

And of course you could read what people say and respond in a way that indicates you read it...

You just pu it a lot better than I did.

I understand that this is the traditional wisdom and I believe it used to be more this way than it is
today with the internet, cable TV and the 24/7 World Psychodrama Stage.

What a load of crap- !! If that scenario helped anyone it sure wasn't Obama.... The timing was exquisite... I'll give you that ... but it wasn't Obama's.

Well, as a matter of fact I did. Wright has about 40 years experience as a public speaker. He had a regular practice schedule too, every Sunday. He is a professional public speaker and being the head minister at a church as big as Trinity I bet he was a damned good public speaker.

He knew how to say it, what body language to use, and which facial expressions work best to convey he was delivering a sincere message. I bet he could sell the Brooklyn Bridge if he had a mind to.

Wright was schedule to be a speaker in Fort Worth a couple a weeks before he went on his special speaking junket. The news people in the DFW area were chomping at the bit to cover that Fort Worth speech. It got cancelled. And the explaination was Wright was cancelling all his speeching events "due to security concens".

Yet, two weeks later he goes on to make several speeches, at least a couple of which were special last minute deals, and doing the very thing which he knew would be trouble for Barrack Obama.

That series of speeches was done so Obama could repudiate Wright.

Marine seems to have a very active imagination, similar to other people with...interesting theories. Reminds me of my four-year old son (except my son's theories are more charming). The other day he was speaking of how he wanted to see his "Grandpa". When I mentioned that one was dead and the other was in Colombia (he actually should have seen that second one or two days ago) he said that he had a third Grandpa.

If you believe what you just wrote never try to judge veracity in an interview or interrogation, leave it to people with at least some skill. The reactions that told the story are neurochemically induced and can't be faked. It's impossible to trigger the pleasure center that quickly and with that intensity by rote or intentional association, it's completely apart from his speaking skills.

Of course timing would have been of the essence so that it would have done under the just right astrological alignment.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar Marine.

Yeah, Marine......the entire Obama campaign is a conspiracy theory extraordinaire and YOU have uncovered it all!!!

I like your son Arne !! He thinks quickly! And besides.. who says we can't have as many Grandpa's as we want ? We can award that title to others if we choose you know. They are pretty special people. I'd have cloned mine multiple times if my imagination was as well honed as your little guy's.

In the end if you wish to see things have a chance to change for the better it is time to shake things up in a big way Marine (and all others who are considering not voting for Obama or even gag... voting for McCain). Even if I do not like Obama, I will vote for him and hope to see the old and newer webs of corruption broken. Yes the spiders will still be there under the rocks waiting for a chance to respin the webs, but we have to start somewhere. At the very least the forces of total corruption will have to regroup, and some may even be spotted and stepped on or thrown to the wolves to save the higher ups.

No one should be surprised Obama is a politician, and he didn't fool me for one minute, but politics is how we elect leaders and we have our own myths and complacense to blame for the way our system has degenerated into pablum and games. And in any event it is better than the tyranny our forebears lived under, and the tyranny that is on offer from people like Bush.

Count me among those who assume anyone running for office is a politician.

Anything besides that kind of half-witty response?

How surprising! A repetition! A quarter-witty response! And then an eighth-witty one!

Now I get it! Marine is the guy who writes spam for porn sites!

“This is bigger than Kennedy. . . . This is the New Testament.” . . .”I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don’t have that too often. No, seriously. It’s a dramatic event.” — Chris Matthews

“Obama’s finest speeches do not excite. They do not inform. They don’t even really inspire. They elevate. . . . He is not the Word made flesh, but the triumph of word over flesh . . . Obama is, at his best, able to call us back to our highest selves.” — Ezra Klein

“I would characterize the Senate race as being a race where Obama was, let’s say, blessed and highly favored. That’s not routine. There’s something else going on. I think that Obama, his election to the Senate, was divinely ordered. . . . I know that that was God’s plan.”– Bill Rush

“I cried all night. I’m going to be crying for the next four years,” he said. “What Barack Obama has accomplished is the single most extraordinary event that has occurred in the 232 years of the nation’s political history. … The event itself is so extraordinary that another chapter could be added to the Bible to chronicle its significance.” — Rev. Jesse Jackson Jr.

Well, at least coming across as certifiable.

"Wright was schedule to be a speaker in Fort Worth a couple a weeks before he went on his special speaking junket. The news people in the DFW area were chomping at the bit to cover that Fort Worth speech. It got cancelled. And the explaination was Wright was cancelling all his speeching events 'due to security concens'.

Yet, two weeks later he goes on to make several speeches, at least a couple of which were special last minute deals, and doing the very thing which he knew would be trouble for Barrack Obama.

That series of speeches was done so Obama could repudiate Wright."

Marine

"... a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany ... and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama" - Barack Obama Lebanon, New Hampshire.
January 7, 2008.

And I suppose McCain's kissing the who knows what of the self annointed one squating on the throne in the White House now is preferable Marine?

I mean, really now,Marine thinks people are comparing Obama to Jesus. He may be certifiable...ya think?

Obama's Half-Eaten Breakfast Sold on eBay
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/20...s-half-eat.html

I did an MSN search and got this:

"We did not find any results for a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany ... and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama."

I don't have a problem with him being committed, but his attempt to blend the spam technique of slight modifications to try to evade filters and get attention with his expectation of collecting bridge tolls is boring and more than slightly retarded.

Looks like Phil Gramm was right about that "mental recession" comment after all.

C'mon, Marine. Just your ability to speak four languages (is it more?) indicates an intellect that towers over what you are demonstrating right now.

Don't argue with the voices, he can't hear us over them.

That's all true and it is also true that a perfect sample, perfectly reflects the whole. We know that perfect doesn't exist in the real world and so we calculate the error variance (and yes, we could be
in error in the way we do that, so we have a special department, the Philosophy of Science, to check on that). Everything isn't knowable by me but everything is probably knowable by someone, sometime.

Roman ladies used to buy the sweat (and other fluids) from Gladiators in the Colesium and make perfume out of it. No accounting for taste. Today whole segments of the population regularly eat the crap coming from Bush and McCain. Guess we haven't evolved much. Go figure.

Obama supporters should not be too quick to dismiss this message. It exist, in many formats
and it could be a major land mine for the Obama campaign to step on. My wife often thinks out loud
about how he is acts too big for his britches. Persons who are suchly perceived/conceived aren't generally granted much slack.

Do you think that Obama or his top campaign people encourage this kind of thinking?

Personally I think that Marine is simply making a laughingly ridiculous exaggeration of a normal phenomenon, some over-enthusiastic supporters of a charismatic politician going way over the top in speaking about their candidate.

Marine .. seeing as you like quotes so much ... these should make you orgasmic

"It takes a genius to whine appealingly."
- F. Scott Fitzgerald

" Learn the words of wisdom uttered by the wise and apply them in your own life. Live them - but do not make a show of reciting them, for he who repeats what he does not understand is no better than an ass that is loaded with books."
- Kahlil Gibran

"What makes it so plausible to assume that hypocrisy is the vice of vices is that integrity can indeed exist under the cover of all other vices except this one. Only crime and the criminal, it is true, confront us with the perplexity of radical evil; but only the hypocrite is really rotten to the core."
- Hannah Arendt

"Intelligence is like a river... the deeper it flows, the less noise it makes."
- unknown

"It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf."
-Walter Lippman

"Minds are like parachutes ... they only function when open."
- Thomas Dewar

Rla is right though Arn. Perception can easily become reality, and the "dog in the manger" attitude is widespread among humanity. The Repubs will use it, no doubt. And Obama fed the notion early on with his "MLK-esque" mannerisms and tonal mimickery. He should have and should now (especially at the convention) show a true measure of genuine humility when he speaks. I know he is trying to tone down his rhetoric, but the perception is already out there he thinks he's got the big mojo. He needs to concentrate on generating the perception that he will try his best to reverse the damage done during the Bush years to the economy, and to America's good name, while keeping us safe and focused on real dangers and not creating more.

Well TROU I still don't see Obama encouraging this kind of ridiculous worship, but I agree that he needs to make a point of demonstrating (not faking) some humility or he could get more of this kind of crap.

But then humility is something most politicians would do well to have more of, even the ones without charisma.

Does anyone think that Richard Nixon was sufficiently humble?

Women who are still disappointed that Hillary didn't get the nomination, and the guys who want to make points with them, are especially sensitive to these excesses, which often aren't very excessive. Even Obama contributes fodder occassionally, as when showed off his jeans, or the
way he told Hillary she was friendly enough and the few times he has almost slipped into a preacher role.. His star campaign strategist isn't eaten up with human relations skills. All of this puts him in a position that he better not f**k to badly, or bombs could start going off--there are some quarters
where he won't get any slack...ever...

Good Lord, I hate to think of what you guys would be saying about JFK if this were his campaign. The crowds behaved in much the same way as the campaign progressed. Particularly after the debates.

Crowd enthusiasm is always there with a candidate who promises change and a new direction. Obama isn't exceptional. The only exceptional thing is that he is the first African American candidate and just happens to be quite bright and a very good speaker who people relate to because of his age and his message. It's hope that is the motivator in this campaign at a time when the country has never needed it more.

Thank you CO. While I think that Obama would do well not get carried away by what his supporters say about him (something lots of famous people would do well to keep in mind) I hardly think that he has a problem because some of his supporters have made some crazy, over the top statements about him.

A lot of of people are into hero worship, and it has always been that way.

And it is just not politicians. I would be careful getting between a thousand girls between the ages of five and ten and Miley Cyrus!

Liberal Fear of a Black President

July 11, 2008 | 03:07 PM (EST)

John Ridley

Jesse Jackson's ridiculous comments about Barack Obama "talking down" to black people -- as opposed to Jackson's totally reprehensible comments insinuating violence being committed against Obama (click here to see the video) -- are only the latest in a litany of derisive remarks directed at Obama from stalwarts of the left. Ralph Nader and Geraldine Ferraro and Al Sharpton and Bob Johnson and South Carolina State Senator Robert Ford have all maligned Obama as being everything from a "lucky" black man to not being black enough.

While it's never a shock when operatives of the far, far right have trouble with a person of color achieving stature (though I do believe they play ball better with those in the fold), what a long strange trip this campaign season has been watching so-called liberals fumble the hot potato that is Barack Obama.

Why? Why is Obama of such consternation to the Old Schoolers?

For one, Obama and his candidacy challenge the liberal establishment; by not miring himself in the politics of hand outs Obama elevates blacks above and beyond a herd that was fed the grain of entitlements in exchange for votes. In addition to extolling blacks to take more personal responsibility (a position a Pew research study finds the majority of black Americans hold), Obama has also questioned race-based affirmative action and understands -- again, as the majority of black Americans do -- that what's good for the country is good for all of us. To Jackson that's "talking down" to blacks. To Nader that's "talking white." But to the tens of millions of Americans who helped Obama win the primary (as opposed to Jackson and Nader who have yet to win an election) Obama is simply talking to America.

Moreover, what scares the Old Schoolers is that Obama's potential election removes from them the victim stick with which they flog their diminishing relevance. Obama as president would be empirical evidence that, while there are and probably always will be racists in America, America is no longer a racist nation. There are a lot of liberals who've made good bank stretching out the "you done me wrong, now gimme something" politics of the sixties well into the new millennium.

Obama wants change.

And change for the Old Schoolers ain't a good thing.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-ridley/...p_b_112211.html

QUOTE(rla @ Jul 11 2008, 03:38 PM) Obama supporters should not be too quick to dismiss this message. It exist, in many formats
and it could be a major land mine for the Obama campaign to step on. My wife often thinks out loud
about how he is acts too big for his britches. Persons who are suchly perceived/conceived aren't generally granted much slack.



The "Messiah" image is single greatest perception on all of my pro-gun boards.