http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=513

December 8th, 2004 2:07 pm
Killed unarmed Iraqis, ex-marine tells hearing; U.S. deserter was right to flee his post, immigration and refugee board told

By Marina Jimenez / Globe and Mail

A former U.S. marine testified yesterday that the U.S. military "murdered" civilians in Iraq and that he pumped 500 rounds of bullets into vehicles that failed to stop at military checkpoints.

Jimmy Massey, a former marine staff sergeant, told an immigration and refugee board hearing in Toronto that he and his fellow marines shot and killed more than 30 unarmed men, women and children and even shot a young Iraqi who got out of his car with his arms in the air.

"We killed the man. We fired at a cyclic rate of 500 bullets per vehicle," testified Mr. Massey, a marine for 12 years who was honourably discharged last year. "The company gunnery sergeant came running over and began yelling, 'You just shot a guy with his hands up.' "

Mr. Massey testified in the refugee claim of U.S. army deserter Jeremy Hinzman, 26, who sought asylum in Canada after his application to be a conscientious objector was rejected. Mr. Hinzman said he did not want to be deployed to Iraq with his 82nd Airborne Division because he feared he would be forced to commit war crimes and atrocities in a conflict he considered illegal.

IRB member Brian Goodman has said he won't consider evidence about the legality of the U.S. military campaign in Iraq, but yesterday Mr. Massey was permitted to testify about the killing of civilians.

The former marine said none of the Iraqis they shot had suicide bombing materials in their vehicles. He speculated that they didn't understand the hand signals and signage indicating they should stop.

On another occasion, marines reacted to a stray bullet by killing a small group of unarmed protesters and bystanders, said Mr. Massey, who said he has nightmares and posttraumatic stress disorder. "I was deeply concerned about the civilian casualties," he said. "What they were doing was committing murder."

His testimony bolstered that of Mr. Hinzman, who said earlier the Iraqi conflict was considered "a new kind of war" and soldiers believed they were "going to Iraq to jack up [kill] some terrorists."

"We were told to consider all Arabs as potential terrorists . . . to foster an attitude of hatred that gets your blood boiling," said the former paratrooper, adding he did not want to be involved in capturing Iraqis who would not be afforded the rights of due process or of the Geneva Conventions.

Mr. Hinzman said he went public with his asylum bid and requested that the board hearing be open because he feared that otherwise Canadians would find his claim to be a "preposterous proposition."

"I didn't know how it would be dealt with. I thought they would say, 'You're an American, what the hell are you doing? Go home," Mr. Hinzman said. "By being public, I could ensure it would be handled openly and fairly."

After his application to be considered a conscientious objector was rejected, Mr. Hinzman fled the 82nd Airborne Division in Fort Bragg, N.C., in January, 2004, and sought asylum in Toronto with his wife and two-year-old son.

Mr. Hinzman said he requested conscientious-objector status and not a discharge from the army because he wanted to keep his commitment to serve, and exercise the option of being declared a non-combatant. Although he now understands he could have appealed his conscientious-objector application all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, he didn't know this at the time.

Mr. Hinzman's case is the litmus test for four other U.S. army deserters who have made similar claims.

Jeffry House, Mr. Hinzman's lawyer, says it will be difficult to prove his client would be persecuted in the United States, where he could face a court-martial and one to five years in a military prison for deserting. "Wrongful prosecution is persecution," he said. "It would be wrong to prosecute someone who doesn't want to participate in atrocities or in an illegal war. A conscientious objector should not be forced to fight."

Janet Chisholm, a government lawyer, said her research shows that eight U.S. army deserters between 1990 and 2000 were treated leniently, receiving on average one-year sentences in military prison. In May, 2004, Staff Sergeant Camilo Mejia Castillo of the Florida National Guard was sentenced to one year for desertion.

Mr. Hinzman said it would be unjust to serve even one day in a military prison for refusing to participate in an illegal conflict. He said although he doesn't condone violence, he didn't object to the U.S.'s military invasion of Afghanistan, because it was in retaliation for the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

Interesting... Thanks for posting, although I wished it came from another site. Nothing against Michael Moore, but showing this to a hard-line Bush-supporter, some would just discount it.

I posted on this topic earlier this week ( target='_blank'>


http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/for...wtopic=8988&hl= )

It has links to the actual sites of those requesting asylum.

Here ya go...another link to the same story.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Art...tional/Americas

If the story is accurate, and I usually find the Toronto Globe & Mail is, then he's screwed! The story states "Jimmy Massey, a former marine staff sergeant, told an immigration and refugee board hearing in Toronto that he and his fellow marines shot and killed more than 30 unarmed men, women and children and even shot a young Iraqi who got out of his car with his arms in the air." If that be true and there are no extenuating circumstances then he's already a self-admitted war criminal, something desertion and fleeing to Canada shouldn't save him from!

His testimony was to help Jeremy Hinzman.

Mr. Massey testified in the refugee claim of U.S. army deserter Jeremy Hinzman, 26, who sought asylum in Canada after his application to be a conscientious objector was rejected. Mr. Hinzman said he did not want to be deployed to Iraq with his 82nd Airborne Division because he feared he would be forced to commit war crimes and atrocities in a conflict he considered illegal.

Oops, my bad! Read the story too fast methinks.

Well hell, as long as the Canadians have got Massey, a self-admitted war criminal, they ought to just go ahead and prosecute him while patting Hinzman on the butt and shoving him back across the border, eh?

Well if massey is an Admitted War Criminal, he should be persecuted by the US for Crimes against humanity according to the rules governing conduct of US forces and Laws of land warfare.

I think he may just be saying that to try to help someone else, but I'll bet that Canada will end up returning both of these "Servicemembers" to the US where they will be punished under the UCMJ (rocks and shoals for you old timers)

Some of this may be called propaganda by "liberals", and should therefore be discounted or silenced.

I believe that its the truth and this has damaged all of us and all of humanity.

Some may say "We didn't start this; we were responding to a threat!" in order to justify it all. They want us to believe that we don't have a choice.

We must say "yes, there is another choice!" It's going to take all we've got to do that.

isn't this illegal/in violation of geneva convention to comply with illegal/ commands /in violation of geneva convention?

that if the soldier obeys, he himself will carry the responsibility?

If it is then methinks we've also got the same problems in previous incursions like in Haiti and the Balkans. We don't get to pick and choose which actions to examine. IAC methinks if anyone with standing thought they could show the Iraq incursion illegal they'd bring a complaint against the U.S. to either the UN or the World Court in the Hague.That question may never be answered because he deserted and missed movement. That's a whole different consideration! IMHO he hung himself out to dry on this one. Judging by past actions Methinks Canada will not rule favorably and he'll be returned.

Ex-Marine: Comrades 'enjoyed the killing’
Some comrades were ’psychopaths,’ former Marine in Iraq testifies

TORONTO - A former U.S. Marine in Iraq, testifying Wednesday at a hearing for an American military deserter seeking asylum in Canada, said several men in his unit were “psychopaths” who enjoyed killing unarmed Iraqi civilians who posed no threat.

Jimmy Massey, a staff sergeant who was in the Marines for 12 years and served three months in Iraq before being honorably discharged with post-traumatic stress syndrome, made the allegations before Canada’s Immigration and Refugee Board on the final day of an asylum hearing for Army Pfc. Jeremy Hinzman, 26.

Hinzman fled Fort Bragg, N.C., to Canada weeks before his 82nd Airborne Division was due to be deployed to Iraq. He had served three years in the Army but applied for conscientious objector status before his unit was sent to Afghanistan in 2002.

He is asking for refugee status for himself, his wife and 2-year-old son, claiming he would face persecution if forced to return to the United States. Hinzman’s lawyer, Jeffry House, said he would be the first American soldier granted political asylum in Canada if his petition succeeds.

Massey, who did not know Hinzman before the hearing, said Hinzman likely would have been forced to commit atrocities that violated the Geneva Conventions if he went to Iraq.

Killed despite surrendering
Massey, 33, of Waynesville, N.C., said his 7th Marines weapons company killed more than 30 civilians during a 48-hour period in April while stationed at a checkpoint in the southern Baghdad district of Rashid. The victims included unarmed demonstrators and a man who drove up in a car and raised his hands above his head in the universal symbol of surrender.

“I know in my heart that these vehicles that came up, that they were civilians,” he said. “But I had to act on my orders. It’s a struggle within my heart.”

The orders, he said, were to shoot at anyone who drove into what is known as the “red zone” surrounding the checkpoint because they could be suicide bombers.

Massey told the tribunal he got caught up in the frenzy and shot at civilians as well.

“I take full responsibility for my actions,” he said. “We deliberately gunned down people who were civilians. I became so concerned because I felt that Marines were honestly enjoying it. I saw plenty of Marines become psychopaths. They enjoyed the killing.”

Marine Corps denies allegations
The Marine Corps denied Massey’s allegations. “We’re not saying he’s lying, but his perception of what the situation was in relation to the rules of engagement, and what was justified, is different than ours,” said Maj. Douglas Powell, a spokesman for the Marine Corps at the Pentagon.

“It was investigated and any acts of wrongdoing, in regards to violations of the laws of war, the laws of armed conflict, were unsubstantiated,” he said.

Hinzman’s case comes just as Ottawa attempts to improve relations with Washington, which soured dramatically after Canada refused to send troops to Iraq.

Hinzman argued that the war in Iraq was illegal and fighting in it would make him a war criminal. He also said he would be persecuted if forced to return to the United States, noting that he now receives threatening e-mail. A typical term in a U.S. military prison for Army desertion is a year.

Fear of persecution
“After I would be released from jail, the chances of my getting a job would be slim and there would be social persecution,” he told reporters after his hearing.

Hinzman is one of three American military deserters seeking refugee status in Canada. Hearings for Brandon Hughey of the Army’s 1st Cavalry and David Sanders of the Navy will be heard by the refugee board in January.

House, an American lawyer who first came to Canada as a draft dodger during the Vietnam War, is representing the three Americans. He said 30,000-50,000 Americans who fled to Canada during Vietnam were allowed to settle there.

The tribunal is expected to make its decision early next year.

DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!

Michael Moore just re-posted the story, the author/source is By Marina Jimenez of the Toronto Globe and Mail - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Art...tional/Americas

Not that anyone here cares, but I try to read the Globe & Mail every day. From her past stories I've read I'd have to rate Marina Jimenez as a very conscientious reporter and have never found any major flaws in her stories.

Here are some links to more stories about this subject from a Canadian perspective:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Pag...&go.x=8&go.y=15

Methinks this quote from one of the stories shows how difficult this case may be to win: "But even Jeffry House, Mr. Hinzman's lawyer, conceded that it will be difficult to establish his client will be persecuted if returned to the U.S., especially after Mr. Goodman ruled he will not consider evidence that U.S. military action in Iraq has been condemned by the international community as illegal."

No more recent stories I can find, but here's the latest CBC story.

This, IMHO, is the most telling sentence in the whole story: "He also told the board that he refused to serve because he might have had to commit atrocities against the Iraqi people."

The Globe & Mail has a follow up story, seems they are a little perplexed by some of the eccentric behaviour in his past.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Art...?query=deserter

After reading this, it sounds like A) he didnt know what he was getting into and he is pulling this stunt as a political statement

He probably never recovered from boot camp shock.

I remember about the third day of boot camp wondering what the h*ll I'd got myself into. I got over it the first time somebody called me Marine though.

I think young adulthood is a phase in life to make one's first major adult committment. It's a time in life to take on righteous causes and try to make a name for yourself. It's trial and error with consequences. Young adults take a direction that they later regret and/or look back with pride---usually some of both. It sounds to me that this soldier is struggling with this and struggling in public. He will have some work to do later in life to repair the wreckage (dishonorable discharge etc). Time will tell.

oops -- I think I meant this reply to go in "soldier refuses deployment".