The conventioanal wisdom says that those in the lower ranks vote Democrat and the higher ranks Republican. Given that a general allowed the tension-filled press conference to take place yesterday, make me wonder about the military vote. Did Kerry win the military vote?

Kerry to visit Iraq
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles...National%20News

We've all been asking the same question. So far we've only found a few stats in a few areas. In those areas Kerry won. Just a quess but maybe Kerry won. If Bush won the military vote the media would be telling us daily. The silence may be telling.

He better get out of the U.S soon I know he isn't welcome here in Chicago. Maybe he can campaign for the Iraq president and GWB can rig the election for him to win there and then discredit the exit polls as baseless stats.

Media "Mr Bush do you find it unlikely that exit poll data showed John Kerry being blown out in the election for Iraq President a bit alarming after his victory?"

President Bush "You know all you conspiracy theorist are getting on my nerves let's be serious there was a religious movement from the radical shites that secured his victory in Iraq. We have a mandate now and I expect John Kerry to use his political capital in Iraq."

Media "Your absolutely right Mr President those conspiracy theorists are so funny hahah"

Interesting.

Intel,

Congratulations, You have earned a first. Top billing on my ignore list. I hope you enjoy the next four years. Remember who's in charge. When things get tough, pat yourself on the back. You get what you ask for. Your over the top comments about Kerry in this post and privious posts are uncalled for.

Perhaps a note should be sent to the Mods? After all, criticism is fine. But insults are not.

First off thank you for posting the article. I am completely puzzled now, and I NEED to continue to have faith in Kerry even though the signals coming from him are confusing to me, weary of second-guessing, I guess. But last week he quietly attends soldier's funeral in Arlington and it was not photo-op, media covered and now he's planning to go to Iraq and meet with the troops. I truly do think he cares deeply at a compassionate and human level, and I am just quite perplexed about the politics of it all, but I don't think Kerry (unlike B***) capitalizes to his advantage on other's misfortune.

I think he truly wanted to bring dignity and respect back to politics and believed that our country yearned for the same. I don't think the stolen election of 2004 sent Kerry a message different than his own thoughts that the country yearns to restore it's health, so I don't think he just rode off into the sunset, but I'm not at all sure or clear now what's going on behind the scenes.

Right now I'm interpreting the Kerry statement that he will run in 2008 to mean that he will assuredly run .... for a Second Term as President and CiC.
In my mind this election is not yet over and I will hold onto that hope until it is over, be that this month or next or even the next year.

Ok maybe you are all oblivious to the fact that we had to donate money out of our pockets (me being one of them w a $500 dollar contribution) to a 3rd party canidate to get a recount in Ohio. So I will say it once again Kerry had 50 million in his account after election day and then tried to put out the fire by donating 35 mil to cover up this absurd stat and claim they only had 15 mil. So who's side is he on? Cause that's BS that all of us have to come out of pocket for this and our the canidate we backed does nothing. Do you see him active on this? Hell no you don't casue he could care less. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. Unfortunatley he has provided neither. So quit fooling yourself's and just face the facts that we made a huge mistake by having this guy represent us. He will have absolutley no chance in 2008. Now people who laughed at Gore for fighting so hard in 2000 realize that this man genuinely cared about our votes being counted. John Kerry could care less and if you think I am wrong then you aren't paying attention to anything going on and are part of the reason we keep losing elections.

The harsh fact

You Want the Truth? You Can't handle the Truth!

I am not puzzled because Kerry has always put his country and people ahead. He does the right thing even when it may not be viewed that way by many. I haven't second-guessed him and it is much easier on me to just have confidence on him and still hope that he'll be president in 2005. If the fraud wins, however, I will support him in 2008 or continue to enjoy him as my Senator.

I wish I could share your thoughts, but I must admit that I may have already lost hope. Not the hope that Ohio went the wrong way, but even if it did, I don't think it will matter. Bush has too many people under his thumb now. We are no longer a free America. Bush controls all of it

Sadly yes. If Kerry is going to run in 2008, he will have to win a lot of support back beacuse people have lost patience/respect for him for not standing up for us. The third party is doing most of the work.

Intel, welcome to my ignore list. You'll find the other residents of the list have similar manners. You should all get along just fine.

Great thanks for the honor. Now why don't you stay on the topic and either defend or criticize him. Don't make this personal against me it only displays your ignorance to the world. I challenge you to post some evidence that he is supporting the recount with funds.
Go to the Cobb website they still need funds. Where is the 15 mil? THey only need 88k more

You Want the Truth? You can't handle the Truth!

Intel:

Your Kerry bashing here and on other threads is getting old. You do NOT know what the Kerry campaign is doing behind the scenes although we do know they gave money to the Ohio Dem Party for the recount and are participating in one of the law suits. Your inflammatory accusations are not backed by facts.

I have NO regrets that I supported the Kerry-Edwards campaign, if you do, you obviously were not ever very comfortable with your decision. FLIP FLOP. But, I have to wonder if you ever were a Kerry supporter.

I don't agree 100% with every move Kerry has taken during the campaign or after, but he still has my support!

I don't believe in eatting our own.

Ok I will quote his campaigns efforts for you incase you all forgot.

Kerry's lead electoral attorney there, Daniel Hoffheimer, echoed the McAuliffe tone, noting "neither the pending Ohio recount nor this investigation is designed to challenge the popular vote in Ohio.”

What are we doing there if we aren't there to challenge the popular vote count?

"While we don't expect to change the results of the election we do belive there needs to be a full investigation of the ohio vote tabulation"

How could you not expect to change the results? Why would you recount then?

Now a last thought for those of you complaining there is no media coverage. How do you expect mainstream media to take this serious when our canidate John Kerry won't?

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!

Intel, respectfully, it's hard to tell what your motivation is, but in an earnest attempt to take you at face value, I will consider you are among the many of us who are disappointed in the election outcome.

I contend that most all of us here are second-guessing what is going on behind the scenes on the qt, and it is your right to be fearful and distrustful, and your right to express it.

Many of us though, have a quiet and active faith that Kerry, while on the surface of things, appears to have abandoned the cause, he has in play some different strategies that we do not yet understand or even comprehend. He is known not to be a quitter and has done much in a determined and steady behind the scenes kind of approach that has gone unheralded.

In that it is unlikely I or others can convince you to believe something you do not about Kerry, please also respect it is unlikely you can convince us to believe something we do not believe about Kerry's patriotism and genuine sense of duty. If we are proven wrong in our belief, then we will have to struggle through that period of disenchantment when that time comes.

However, this election is not yet over, and will not be for yet a few more weeks, perhaps months. What would you like to do along those lines to further that cause? Please specify what it is that you want us to do in that your messages are on the negative side. Are you wishing to vent and wanting acknowledgement? Are you trying to wake us up to some reality that you believe we need to see? What is your message?

I think someone is planning to run in 2008. He should start his campaign in 2006 or so, really get out there and hammer, while he still has all of the stucture. What he has to do right now is introduce revolutionary bills in the senate and make allies with classic republicans. If Kerry does run in 2008 then I doubt that McCain would run, although I don't think he will anyway. I really would like to see the governor of Virginia run but if Kerry does, then I am behind him 100%.

Well written. I obviously voted for him and I am upset that I among others that we are being ridiculed by mainstream media and peers across this country as conspiracy theorists. I think he should publically fight in the eye of the camera for what we all know is true. That the election was stolen across the board. Until he does that we will have no legitimacy. What can we do to accomplish this? Ridicule him and put him down until he faces up to those who supported him or he is ultimately destroyed. Maybe I am a bit harsh but I feel I have fought harder for him to win this than he himself has and yes that makes me angry. Until his supporters force him to challenge this administration in the public eye we will all look like a bunch of sore loser/ conspiracy theorists. Are there other ways to go about this? Probably everyone deals with things in their own way. This is just how I deal with it. So accept my apology if you think I am being to harsh but you bet your ass I am losing respect for him by the second when he won't acknowledge that voter fraud occured and he won't put his political capital behind it. In the end he could go down as history's greatest sore loser but what does that matter if you care about the truth. The truth is a lot more important than a political career will ever be. Thats all I am saying. Good Luck in your endeavors!

I dunno...when Kerry sent around that video a few weeks ago, what I got from it was...55 million of you voted for me...so ...follow me..I woll continue to fight for you! He's fulfilling his campaign promises as best as he can (like trying to push this child health care bill) and doing Presidential stuff ...so next time...more people will know who he is.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/12/09/...q.ap/index.html

The story is now on CNN, along with that beautiful picture of Kerry at Arlington Cemetery last week.

As a senator OR as our new president, I hope Kerry's visit to Iraq will fuel his resolve to use his power to help get our troops home ASAP.

Awesome, and thank you kansasgirl. Wow, CNN, huh, wonder if they are starting to "get it" yet? The photos of Kerry at the Arlington funeral were from last week and they are just now getting around to coverage? Sigh, oh well, goes together well then with this story of Kerry going to Iraq.

He cares about the troops, I've always known that, and am sure he would have been able to mitigate on behalf of the troops some of the horrible damage and carnage in Iraq. The B***meister doesn't have an ounce of feeling about it, which makes the exploitation of the troops and military and the families and public that support the troops all the more awful.

I'm not the flag-waving kind of military family here, won't be waving that flag again till the dignity, honor and respect are restored to it, and that won't be thru a continued B*** administration. I'm among the speaking out military families that challenge the policies of the CIC as wrong for the troops, wrong for this country. I still desparately NEED for Kerry to be the CIC and not 4 yrs from now either. The 2 loved ones in our family, having already served extended 15 month tours in Iraq, are going to have second deployments to Iraq in the next few months, and I'm not sure they will survive a second tour there...it's terrifying.

I just want to add my support to Kerry, I am assuming he knows more then I do about what he's doing. I never, ever thought he could be bought and paid for by a contribution or I certainly wouldn't have supported him. Patience grasshopper.

Let's all pray for his safty. This country needs him. Please God bring him home safe.

adding prayers

"I'm among the speaking out military families that challenge the policies of the CIC as wrong for the troops, wrong for this country. I still desparately NEED for Kerry to be the CIC and not 4 yrs from now either. The 2 loved ones in our family, having already served extended 15 month tours in Iraq, are going to have second deployments to Iraq in the next few months, and I'm not sure they will survive a second tour there...it's terrifying." ....DutyCalls

Thank you for speaking out against the conditions the soldiers are in, as well as challenging the policies.

Blessings to your family members and hopes for a safe return home.

I just wish he wasn't going alone!

Just another reminder of how much a coward bush really is. Can't go to one funeral, doesn't comfort the families of the troops. What an (you know)

I'm so glad now I have supported Kerry from day one. I will continue to support him, my sticker is still on the car and I still have my yard sign. Now, I hope to watch the evil empire implode. Looks like it could happen. I will pray for it.

Intel seems more interested in "jarring" intel from us then he does sharing a point. A person who supported Kerry so much to "donate" $500 after an election wouldn't become absolutely disgruntle. Or if he/she truly is disgruntled then it’s perfectly obvious that he/she is dangerous and should be watched.

No Intel I'm not going to ignore you, I think you have an ulterior motive and did since your first post. The republicans and the groups of people that cheated in this election are going to do some hard time for the crimes they committed against the American people. It may take many years, but they are going to pay just like any other criminal.

So for those of you who were involved with any of the alleged cheating during the 2004 election please do get in contact with the appropriate plaintiffs lawyer and maybe we can help you negotiate a deal so you won't go to jail. You must not forget you are a pawn in a kings game.....you could quickly end up in a bad way and your "former" party affiliates won't stick their heads out of their hiding place to help you for nothing. Look at the "scape" goats in the past and think do you really believe in a fixed election so much you would risk going to prison for.

And for those of you that are loosing hope, I'm not a looser and won't surrender to the thoughts of one.



Fredom is a word voiced from your heart!

Agreed.

Watch your back out there, JK

Freedom, not Fredom....It was early and I was in a hurry to get to work.


Freedom is a word voiced from your heart!

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/12/magazine...tner=ALTAVISTA1

Stock Options for Soldiers
By JASON ZENGERLE

Published: December 12, 2004


Like many liberal policy wonks, Steve Clemons, a senior fellow at the New America Foundation, had some advice for John Kerry before this year's presidential debates. In order to burnish his pro-military credentials, Clemons suggested, Kerry should call on patriotic companies -- particularly those that are profiting from the war in Iraq, like defense and oil firms -- to contribute stock options and other assets to a national fund for American servicemen and women who have seen combat in Iraq. Clemons called his proposal ''Stock Options for Soldiers,'' and as is the case with most unsolicited predebate advice, the candidate politely passed.

But Clemons's idea didn't fall completely on deaf ears. In September, he posted the plan on his blog, The Washington Note, which has about 10,000 readers. Now Clemons is fielding calls and e-mail about his proposal from fellow wonks and politicos, as well as from military and corporate types. Clemons envisions corporations contributing any type of asset -- possibly stock options but also cash -- to a national fund for soldiers that would be managed in a transparent fashion along the lines of the Alaska Permanent Fund, which was created in 1976 in order to invest a portion of the state's oil revenue for future generations of Alaskans.

Initially, Clemons conceived of the plan somewhat facetiously, mainly as a way to call attention to what he considers war profiteering by hawkish Bush supporters who have benefited financially from the war in Iraq. But now that his idea is being taken more seriously, he is grappling with some of the trickier details of his proposal and crossing his fingers that legislation will be introduced in the next Congress. ''There'll be a lot of kickback the further this idea goes,'' he says. ''But I think the country would like to see the establishment of something broader for the people on the front line -- because the people profiting right now aren't on the front line.''

Why is he visiting IRAQ without protection? I'd take bodyguards.

Be careful of pointing fingers about anybody before getting all the information. I don't know much about intel but he is most likely just a freeper, not somebody intentionally trying to lead on everybody here.