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Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jul 7 2008, 05:28 AM) *
We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

As we hold the rest of mankind ....

Think about it, America ....

THE CANDID WORLD IS WATCHING ...

And so ...
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jul 7 2008, 05:21 AM) *
The Constitution of New York : April 20, 1777

IN CONVENTION OF THE REPRESENTATIVES OF THIS STATE OF NEW YORK,

Kingston, 20th April, 1777.

" 'Whereas His Britannic Majesty, in conjunction with the lords and commons of Great Britain, has, by a late act of Parliament, excluded the inhabitants of these united colonies from the protection of his Crown;

and whereas no answers whatever to the humble petition of the colonies for redress of grievances and reconciliation with Great Britain has been, or is likely to be, given, but the whole force of that kingdom, aided by foreign mercenaries, is to be exerted for the destruction of the good people of these colonies;

AS A LOYAL, PATRIOTIC AMERICAN CITIZEN, I WOULD SAY THAT THE ROOTS OF MY PARTICULAR PATRIOTISM HERE IN AMERICA, MY DEVOTION TO "MY COUNTRY", BEGIN RIGHT HERE WITH THESE FEW WORDS FROM THE ORIGINAL CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK ...

.... but the whole force of that kingdom, aided by foreign mercenaries, is to be exerted for the destruction of the good people of these colonies .....

As the TYRANT JINGO George W.(ar monger) Bush FLOODS Iraq with the WHOLE FORCE of America, AIDED BY AN ARMY OF MERCENARIES, which he has been exerting for the DESTRUCTION of the people of Iraq ....

I AM FORCED TO HAVE TO WONDER ....

WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING HERE?

FOR WHAT IT IS SEEMS ALL TOO PAINFULLY CLEAR ....

THERE'S MEN WITH GUNS ALL AROUND ....

TELLING US ALL THAT WE GOT TO BEWARE ....

OR THE TYRANT JINGO IS GOING TO UNLEASH HELLFIRE MISSLES ON US ....

AND 120-mm TANK CANNONS ....

AND 20-mm. CHAIN GUNS ....

AND 500-pound precision-laser-guided BOMBS ....

And so ...
Livyjr
Whereas His AMERICAN Majesty GEORGE THE ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS, in conjunction with the lords and commons of THE AMERICAN CONGRESS, has, by a late act of HIMSELF, on the advice of his lawyers and DEPARTMENT OF NO-JUSTICE, excluded the inhabitants of these united states of America from the protection of his Crown ....
Livyjr
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jul 7 2008, 05:21 AM) *
... and whereas it appears absolutely irreconcilable to reason and good conscience for the people of these colonies now to take the oaths and affirmations necessary for the support of any government under the Crown of Great Britain ....

And it is necessary that the exercise of every kind of authority under the said Crown should be totally suppressed ....

And all the powers of government exerted under the authority of the people of the colonies for the preservation of internal peace, virtue, and good order, as well as for the defense of our lives, liberties, and properties, against the hostile invasions and cruel depredations of our enemies ...

And all the powers of government exerted under the authority of the people of the colonies for:

* the preservation of internal peace;

* virtue; and

* good order;

* as well as for the defense of our lives, liberties, and properties ...


THE DEFENSE OF OUR LIVES, LIBERTIES AND PROPERTIES ....

That is what I wore the uniform of an American soldier to do ....

NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN AGGRESSIVE WAR ...

"LIBERTY" ...

We're back to that, again ...

NOT FREEDOM ...

And how hard is it really to understand the concepts of:

* the preservation of internal peace;

* virtue; and

* good order ...

Should somebody in America graduating from HS at the age of 17 at least have a CLUE?

More to the point, should somebody being inducted into the U.S. military at age 16 or 17 or 18 or 35 have a CLUE?

SHOULD DAVID PETRAEUS HAVE A CLUE, WITH HIS FANCY UNIFORM AND GENERAL'S STARS PLASTERED ALL OVER HIM?

HOW IS THE PRESERVATION OF INTERNAL PEACE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA PRESERVED BY THE INDISCRIMINANT SLAUGHTER OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN IN IRAQ BY THE WHOLE FORCE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AIDED BY FOREIGN MERCENARIES UNDER HIS COMMAND?

Riddle me that, somebody ....

Before I die ....

I would like to know ...

And so ...
Livyjr
HOW IS "GOOD ORDER" AND "VIRTUE" GOING TO BE MAINTAINED IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA THIS WINTER WHEN OLD FOLKS LIKE ME BEGIN TO STARVE AND FREEZE TO DEATH BECAUSE POWERFUL, POLITICALLY-CONNECTED AND PROTECTED SPECULATORS HAVE DRIVEN UP THE COST OF LIVING HERE IN THE USA TO BEYOND WHERE WE CAN AFFORD TO PAY?

Riddle me that, John McCain and Barack Obama ....

Before I enter the voting booth this November ...

If I am not dead of starvation before that ....

Or down in GITMO being tortured as a POLITICAL PRISONER ....

And so ...
Livyjr
THAT I AM INDEED A CITIZEN OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK IS MADE INCANDESCENTLY CLEAR BY SECTION 1 OF THE 14th AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:

Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

THUS IS MY PATRIOTISM DEFINED ....


rla
QUOTE(Snuffysmith @ Jul 6 2008, 10:52 PM) *
The Real Meaning of the Fourth of July

Contrary to popular myth, the men who signed the Declaration of Independence were not great Americans. Instead, they were great Englishmen. In fact, they were as much English citizens as Americans today are American citizens. It’s easy to forget that the revolutionaries in 1776 were people who took up arms against their own government. So how is it that these men are considered patriots? Well, the truth is that their government didn’t consider them patriots at all. Their government considered them to be bad guys — traitors, all of whom deserved to be hanged for treason.

Most of us consider the signers of the Declaration of Independence to be patriots because of their courage in taking a stand against the wrongdoing and tyranny of their own government, even risking their lives in the process.

Yet not even the patriotism and courage of these English citizens constitutes the foremost significance of the Fourth of July, any more than the military victory over their government’s forces at Yorktown does.

Instead, the real significance of the Fourth of July lies in the expression of what is undoubtedly the most revolutionary political declaration in history: that man’s rights are inherent, God-given, and natural and, thus, do not come from government.

Throughout history, people have believed that their rights come from government. Such being the case, people haven’t objected whenever government officials infringed upon their rights. Since rights were considered to be government-bestowed privileges, the thinking went, why shouldn’t government officials have the power to regulate or suspend such privileges at will?

The Declaration of Independence upended that age-old notion of rights. All men — not just Americans — have been endowed by God and nature, not government, with fundamental and unalienable rights. Governments are called into existence by the people — and exist at their pleasure — for one purpose: to protect the exercise of these inherent rights.

What happens if a government that people have established becomes a destroyer, rather than a protector, of their rights? The Declaration provides the answer: It is the right of the people to alter or even abolish their government and establish new government whose purpose is the protection, not the destruction, of people’s rights and freedoms.

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights must be construed in light of that revolutionary statement of rights in the Declaration of Independence. The American people used the Constitution to bring the federal government into existence but also, simultaneously, they used that document to limit the government’s powers to those expressly enumerated in the Constitution. With the Constitution, people limited the powers of their own government in a formal, structured way, with the aim of protecting their rights and freedoms from being infringed upon by that same government.

Why did Americans deem it desirable and necessary to limit the powers of the federal government? Because they feared the possibility that their new government would become like their former government against which they had had to take up arms. While they recognized the necessity for government — as a means to protect their rights — they also recognized that the federal government was the greatest threat to their rights. By severely limiting the powers of the federal government to those enumerated within the Constitution, the Framers intended to encase the federal government within a straitjacket.

Even that was not sufficient for the American people, however. As a condition for approving the Constitution, they demanded passage of the Bill of Rights, which emphasized two deeply held beliefs: (1) that the federal government, not some foreign entity, constitutes the greatest threat to the rights and liberties of the American people; and (2) that the enumeration of specific rights and liberties, both substantive and procedural, would better ensure their protection from federal infringement.

On the Fourth of July we celebrate the patriotism and courage of those English revolutionaries who were willing to pledge their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor in defense of the most revolutionary declaration of rights in history — that man’s rights come from God and nature, not from government.

Jacob Hornberger is founder and president of The Future of Freedom Foundation.

At least, he got it half right. Our Rights don't derive from the Government. They also don't derive from, "God," because they could not Operationalize That in the, "Constitution," which many of the emergent leaders were already thinking and talking about. The US Constitution was the final Edit
of the US Declaration of Independence. This was an Organic, self-directing, comming together on
common ground to develop a common sense of what is going on and to provide mutual Self-support
for each other, to protect and grow each Person, Family, Community and Nation. Our Rights derive
from a Social Contract of our forebearers, recorded in the US Constitution and Bill of Rights, which
we individually inherit through Citizenship in a Sovergn Nation, generally sanctioned by the Aggregate of Nations. We are all in this together, whether we like it or not. That is Existential.
Snuffysmith
I think his point on natural law though is relevant and that is in the documents.
Snuffysmith
QUOTE(rla @ Jul 7 2008, 02:17 PM) *
At least, he got it half right. Our Rights don't derive from the Government. . . Our Rights derive
from a Social Contract of our forebearers, recorded in the US Constitution and Bill of Rights, which
we individually inherit through Citizenship in a Sovergn Nation, generally sanctioned by the Aggregate of Nations. We are all in this together, whether we like it or not. That is Existential.


I posted this elsewhere, but will post it here because the United States is a republic, not an empire, nor a collective.

War and the Common Good
by Anthony Gregory The following is based on a talk delivered on Saturday, June 7, 2008, at the Future of Freedom Foundation's conference, Restoring the Republic: Foreign Policy and Civil Liberties, in Reston, Virgina.

We are used to hearing discussion of political issues boiled down to a conflict between the individual and the greater good. Nearly anyone's pet project for government can be sold as a way to promote the common, or general interest – a mission so compelling that the interests of mere individuals must be sacrificed.

Before relating this to war, it is important to consider what it means to take the individual's side on such questions. It is not to be atomistic, to believe humans do not need to cooperate with one another and form groups, social organizations and institutions of law. Far from it. Those who favor individual rights simply believe that out of a respect for the dignity and rights of the individual come community, business, society, religious groups and all the other crucial organizations of social life. We thrive on social cooperation and indeed individualists are its great defenders. We see compulsion against the individual as a great threat to civil society. We believe that when coercion replaces voluntarism, the very basis of civilization is in jeopardy. Thus do we favor the market and community and family – it is only that we see these groups as being at their best when they respect the dignity of the individual. While we understand that, in terms of human progress, the group is indeed, in a sense, more than the sum of the parts, losing sight of the freedom of each individual involved undermines the strength and humanity of such groups. We see no conflict between individual rights and the common good; rather they are inextricably intertwined.

Furthermore, we argue that private, individual selfishness, whether benign or destructive, can never be abolished by the public sector. The state only elevates flawed, selfish human beings to a position of unchecked, lawless authority over others.

And indeed, the focus on individual dignity and rights has been a focus of our culture, of America, of the West, going back many centuries. It pervades our relatively liberal culture and is seen on both the right and left. Pro-lifers focus on the dignity of the individual life of the unborn. Pro-choicers stress the importance of the personal right to choose of the individual woman. Whether the issue is guns, drugs, taxes, or the freedom to worship, most Americans are somewhat receptive idea that the individual is the premier unit in society, on whose freedom rests the greater good of society as a whole.

At the same time, the conservatives who defend individual freedom as it concerns economics attack the left for being carried away with the personal liberty of individuals in the social context. They see calls for social tolerance as always an excuse for selfish, libertine behavior. Leftists respond that conservatives are shilling for greedy and rich CEOs, who care more about their own pocketbooks than the good of humanity. It is not so much that either group is devoid of an individualistic impulse; they only apply the principle that the individual good leads to the social good in different contexts, and inconsistently.

But there exists a strong streak throughout our society of believing in individual rights. There exists a resistance to the extreme forms of coerced collectivism that have plagued totalitarian nations, and much the rest of the world. And while much of the last century was a story of violently competing forms of collectivism, there is certainly a form of civil individualism that has survived, even improved in ways, and to this we owe the blessings of our civilization.

As it concerns the issues of empire, of national defense, of the military state, however, there appears to be a double standard. Those who most loudly condemn collectivism as it relates to domestic policy are often among the loudest in support of war collectivism. Consider many of the outspoken followers of Ayn Rand. Rand did some crucial work in battling the modernist, collectivist zeitgeist of her time. She was certainly no blind follower of the idea that the greater good trumps the rights of the individual. And yet she was not immune to a severe blindspot as it regarded war. In her famous novella Anthem, the first-person protagonist, living in a collectivist dystopia, comes upon an ethical and philosophical epiphany when he discovers the word, "I." He and his society had been conditioned to only use the word "we" – by discovering the word "I," he discovered the idea of the individual. This is a powerful book in imparting the lesson that the very conception of individual rights is itself largely a cultural phenomenon.

And yet, how did Rand discuss matters on questions of foreign policy? Often in terms of "we." Even when she criticized the Vietnam war, it was mainly from a vantage point of lamenting the fact that "we" must sacrifice our treasure and blood to liberate and socially reform "them" – "them," who were not deserving of our individualist culture. At her worst, she said that the oil under Arab land was properly "ours" and that "they" had stolen it.

Many of her followers have taken this much further. They saw 9/11 as an attack of "them" against "us." And so "we" must retaliate – not just against the individual attackers, many of whom, incidentally, died in the suicide mission. No, "we" must remake the whole Middle East in "our" image. Americans become indistinguishable from one another and from their government. So do Arabs and Muslims. The act of living in an oppressive nation alone means you have to sacrifice you rights to the great crusade for democracy. And total democracy, which many individualists have taken up as a sort of end in itself, is, in reality, of course not the same as ethical individualism.



Belligerent nationalism has for centuries been a particularly odious and destructive form of collectivism. It ranks up there with communism in its capacity to create human misery by dispensing with the lives of mere individuals. In fact, even communism benefited greatly from nationalist impulses throughout the world. And surely, not only the egoistical individualists like Rand's worst followers are currently enthralled by it. Much of the conservative movement, and certainly the Republican establishment, have signed on to the imperialist cause, willing to throw the individual under the collectivist warfare state bus. Much of the Christian Right has forgotten about the central tenets of their faith concerning the dignity of the individual; for them, the American nation state is what most deserves defending. The left, too, when it talks about the war often sees it not in terms of individual rights so much as in terms of national priorities, a tragedy for the country, underfinanced collectivist projects at home and disrespect for the American nation-state from the international community. They sometimes attack the idea that corporate fat cats profit off the war more than the war itself.

But what is lost in the fog of war is the dignity and freedom of the individual, something of such importance that, as the conservatives understood it when we were talking about communism, its absence means the breakdown and collapse of civilization, of the common good, of the well-being of society at large. Let us look at what the empire means for the individual, for only then can we even grasp what it means for the greater good.

Let's start with the beleaguered taxpayer. The empire and war on terror are costing each American taxpayer thousands of dollars a year. Before going further, we must reflect on just this cost. To varying degrees, classical liberals, libertarians and conservatives have long stood up for the rights of the individual not to be taxed for governmental social services. By what right can a bureaucrat seize someone's hard-earned income, even for a good cause? This is crucial, because even if liberating foreigners is a good cause that can be done by the government, so would be the feeding of foreigners, or the feeding and housing of the domestic poor. But the free marketers have for years shown that, in practice, an agency that confiscates wealth with the threat of imprisonment cannot properly be termed an agency of compassion. In practice, because of its institutional nature, the welfare state does not succeed it eliminating poverty. And yet how can an agency that takes wealth from people who earn it, and threatens them with time in a cage if they resist, be any more an agency for liberation, for rights protection, than it is for compassion? It would seem that the same practical and ethical arguments against seizing a man's income for welfare would apply to warfare as well.

Some libertarians will defend warfare state taxation. Ayn Rand certainly did. But let us remember that the American Revolutionaries who seceded from the British were not rebelling against Social Security taxes, or taxes that went to the welfare state. They were protesting relatively low taxes to fund empire, some of which was being sold as being in their best interest.

Of course, much of the taxation is indirect. It comes in the form of credit expansion, inflation and thus a weakened dollar, leading to higher prices. The corporate state is empowered, the little guy's priorities are pushed to the side. This process, incidentally, also leads to malinvestment and the business cycle, which are horrific for the economy and the greater good.

The beleaguered taxpayer is forgotten in the midst of war. For some reason it is considered trivial to mention this. It is wrong to focus on what a taxpayer would have chosen to spend his money on if it weren't taken away, even as the left dreams about what the government could have spent it on if not on war.

Consider what the taxpayer could have done with that money if it were not taken at all. He could help secure his retirement, send his kids to a better school, spend more time with the family, start or strengthen a business, give to charity, or do a hundred things that bolster civil society and the productive economy, rather than feed the military-industrial complex and finance mass killing abroad. If it were really in his interest to finance national defense, he would do so freely on his own. When the choice is stripped from him, we should not be surprised that the loot lines the pockets of corporate interests and fails to bring about international peace.

The warfare state is, on net, a huge drain on the economy. It has not made us richer. We live in a comparatively rich nation because of the relatively free market, to which the warfare state is always and everywhere a premier threat. Indeed, the Progressive Era, New Deal and Great Society never did nearly the violence to the free market, ushering in central planning, than the great wars in American history. The New Deal itself was simply a domestic version of Wilson's World War I economic policies, with many of the same institutions resurrected under different names and many of the same personalities, as Robert Higgs has shown.

The loss in hard-earned wealth is only the beginning. The warfare-security state endangers individual liberty like no other threat. It destroys the privacy of the individual. It supplants the free economy with central planning. Sometimes it brings on rationing and a full-blown command economy. Dissent is no longer a protected right. The freedom of an individual to travel, to speak his mind, to work and live in private liberty is thrown aside completely in the march of war.

Those accused of threatening the security of the collective have virtually no rights at all. He can be detained indefinitely in a dungeon on the outskirts of the empire. He can be cruelly interrogated. His guilt is presumed.

Habeas corpus emerged in medieval England, largely as a tool of some courts to assert jurisdiction over others. The individualist principle that one could not be detained without cause, and that all imprisoned subjects had at a minimum access to a judge was born in the midst of competing and overlapping jurisdictional conflicts. Eventually, the writ of habeas corpus – which originated in the King's own royal courts – were turned against the King himself. The American revolutionaries demanded it as a constitutional safeguard, at which point it took on a modern, individualist character. After hundreds of years of struggle, a crucial mechanism for protecting the individual against unjust imprisonment was claimed.

And this is vital in every way. Committing a crime against the state, or society, or an individual has been taken to be very serious. But what about the crime of the state in detaining an innocent person? Think of what it would be like to be detained indefinitely, knowing you're innocent. This was the case for many in Guantanamo, many of whom have finally been freed. I can't imagine it. But as true individualists, we must respect the dignity of every peaceful person held inside a cage. To paraphrase Augustine, a greater good that rests upon unjust imprisonment is no greater good at all.

This principle has been turned back on its head. Once again, habeas corpus is the executive's prerogative. Alberto Gonzales claimed there was no right to it in the Constitution. People have been rounded up, detained, shipped around the globe, shoved in tortuous cells in Guantanamo and elsewhere – all in the name of collective security, in the name of the greater good. Many detainees have been tortured. The idea in vogue is that sometimes you have to completely strip an individual of his humanity in order to save humanity. This is the path toward barbarism and savagery. It is the road to the same mentality that allowed the Stalinists and Nazis to have their way.

But this compromise of individual rights has yielded no successes for the nation as whole. It has only eroded our culture's commitment to the rights of the individual. It has led to the demonization of the "other" – the other who lives outside our collective. It also helped bring about the fantastically disastrous Iraq war, as some of the key pre-war intelligence – if we are to call it that – came out of torture. If you forget about the individual dignity, the intrinsic humanity of the prisoner you have before you, you have already failed to see the forest, and the trees, and they will all burn down in the heat of war collectivism.

The very idea of weighing individual liberty against national security is an egregious collectivist notion we must reject. There is no national security, no collective worth preserving, where we are not safe against unjust detention and oppression by the state.

As bad as all this is, the worst attacks on the individual come with war itself. Nation-building, occupying foreign countries to instill American values and institutions – all this is utopian central planning on the scale of the 20th century socialists and modernists. And the conservatives, of course, have near infinite faith in it. But a new modern man cannot be created through command and control at home. A whole nation cannot be built abroad with curfews, bombs and razor wire.


Bombing has got to be among the most barbaric practices in modern life. "This is war," we are told. And so people must die. Individuals do not count, they are only aggregates, only numbers, and the Pentagon doesn't even care about the statistical side of the equation. Lost completely is any sense that these are human beings being destroyed.

When a bomb hits a neighborhood, civilians are killed. This happened even when the domestic police in Philadelphia bombed an apartment complex back in 1985, and we can go on and on about how militarism has displaced any sense of individualism in domestic policing. But in foreign affairs, mass killing is a matter of policy.

In the 20th century, the century of gulags, concentration camps, mass conscription and centrally planned workers paradises, America emerged as the most bomb-happy regime in world history. While, at least intellectually, the crimes of fascism and communism have imparted some lessons, there is no comparable understanding of the significance of 20th century strategic bombing. In Japan, 60 cities were destroyed. In Germany, the number was more than 100. In the Korean war, Truman pinpointed civilian dams and devastated the country with thousands of tons of ordnance and millions of gallons of napalm. In Vietnam, between one and three million individuals were killed by US bombing campaigns. That's about as many people as Pol Pot killed in Cambodia. For much of the post-World War II 20th century, the US built up its nuclear weapons cache, the mere existence of which should dispel any myths that ours is a government overly concerned with the rights of the individual.

These were individuals who were slaughtered by a program of systematic civilian-killing. They had families, and lives, and passions. They had their favorite music, they had their faith, they had their dreams and futures. They, just like the victims of Communism and fascism, were victims of mechanized, modernist mass murder. I do think one day people will look back at the 20th century as, in part, the era when the US government murdered millions of people from the air.

In today's world, there is less support for strategic bombing as a matter of policy. There were barbaric calls after 9/11 for nuking the Middle East. Conservatives did say that the way to save face in Iraq was to pull out, but not before killing many thousands with a nuclear blast in the Sunni triangle. This murderous policy prescription must be seen in the full moral light in deserves, or else we will not evolve much as a species.

But there has been some change. I don't think Americans would be too happy if Bush nuked Iraq or Iran like Truman did Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This is all to the good.

However, the underlying premise that killing innocents abroad is acceptable has persisted. The trade sanctions against Iraq claimed the lives of hundreds of thousands of children. In our society, killing one child is seen as an unforgivable act. A child is the most precious thing in this world. And of course women and men have the right not to be killed, too. But the 1990s sanctions are seen as, at most, a sort of error in policy planning. They didn't work, we sometimes hear. Unfortunately, they worked all too well at the only murderous purpose they could possibly serve in the real world. They worked in killing hundreds of thousands of innocent children, each one as precious as an American child.

Shock and Awe made me sick to my stomach. Baghdad was a city with a culture, with civil life, with some degree of liberalism even. Of course, most important, there were human beings there. The best thing Michael Moore has ever done was to show footage of Baghdad before and after bombing. Right-wingers hated this scene, because it forced Americans to confront the faces of some of the people their political leaders killed. It's ironic that these same conservatives stress all the supposed good things happening in Iraq that the media won't cover, while they seem completely unwilling to discuss the many good things happening in Iraq before Shock and Awe. Many of those good things happened to people who are not alive today.

And while Shock and Awe was in some ways a more precision bombing than Dresden, it was still mass murder. It was still totally immoral in every respect. Had Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, had he even been best friends with Osama, had he been involved in 9/11 it would still not excuse the dispensing of the individual lives of men, women and children – none of them in any way the enemy – who just happened to live in Saddam's neighborhood.

If bombing a neighborhood in retaliation could be excused, so too can terrorism in countless forms. The terrorism of September 11, insofar as it was a response to US aggression in the Middle East – and, as we know, there was plenty of it for decades – would be considered legitimate by the logic of the defenders of bombings. Surely, Iraq has been more a victim of the US than vice versa – does this mean Iraqis are allowed to do to American civilians what the US did in Afghanistan and Iraq? Of course not. American individuals had a right not to be murdered on 9/11, despite the evils of their government. This principle must be universal. Dropping bombs in a way that predictably leads to innocent deaths is nothing short of deliberate homicide, no matter what your home address.

This brings me to a particularly ghastly collectivist concept, the idea of "collateral damage." The idea is that the innocent people killed in a bombing are not the target, and so the bombing can be an act of self-defense. But this principle surely does not hold in civil life. If a neighbor of yours has trespassed on your property, even caused violence against you and your family, you have no right to kill his kids, no right to attack his neighbor, no right to lift a finger against anyone but the aggressor. The right to self-defense is fundamental, but is grounded in property rights. Practicing it, just like practicing any other right, does not absolve you in your violations of the rights of third parties. Being threatened does not give you a blank check on other people's life and liberty. "Collateral damage" is simply a euphemism for mass murder.

There are some theorists who posit that it is sometimes acceptable to kill the innocent in bombings because of the so-called human shield analogy. If an aggressor is about to kill you, and he has taken a hostage, and the only way to shoot him first is to kill the hostage, do you not have a right to do it? The warmongers say without the right to inflict collateral damage, we would be overtaken by an enemy with tanks covered with babies.

Now, this is quite an irony. Our individual ethic against killing civilians is unrealistic, they say, because in the real world you are always confronted with a human shield, or a ticking timebomb, or an invading army with babies strapped to their tanks. Of course, the real world is nothing like that. And surely invaders and aggressors will still hesitate to embrace such a strategy regardless of our lifeboat ethics, because they know people, when pressed, will even violate their principles to save their lives.

In principle, I believe the human shield retains the right not to be shot. But even if not, this question is divorced from reality. They try to personalize the question of bombing civilians by bringing it down to the individual level. But we are not talking about the odd incident when an individual is confronted with a choice between violating his principles or death. Many of us might cave to survive. We might lie, steal, even kill, if forced into the lawless environment of a Hobbesian world. And, generally speaking, people are more forgiving, even of those who trespass against them, when there are very extreme circumstances.

The human shield analogy is really a way to obscure the real issue. We are not talking about an individual fighting back for dear life, and accidentally or incidentally killing an innocent person. We are talking about the warfare state, about aggressive invasions, about airmen far above cities and dropping flaming death upon little babies, not out of immediate self-defense in any sense at all. The attempt to apply emergency individual ethics to the military, a socialist institution, should raise flags for the true individualist. For the individual is accountable to his victims and their heirs, as well as to public opinion. The state, by definition, is not. It is above the law. It is its own judge so long as it garners public legitimacy and blind loyalty. Insofar as it is successful at this, the state is a lawless machine. If an individual violates someone's property rights in an emergency, there is some recourse, some real chance for making amends and getting forgiveness. The warfare state is a totally different animal.

And, in practical terms, if we want to avoid these Hobbesian cruelties of the battlefield, we should stay the hell out of war.

Sometimes even opponents of war forget about the methodological individualist analysis. In a sense, the true individualist is also the most empathetic to the individual soldier. Yes, he is morally responsible for all of his actions, and yet he too has an individual human dignity that must not be forgotten. Even in a terrible war, some soldiers do defensible, even heroic things. They serve as medics. They defend individual rights in isolated instances. And many of them don't even want to be there, but they are being forced to finish their term of service. The warfare state is, by the way, the one enterprise where the rights of the individual worker are completely thrown aside. He has no right to quit. We have indentured servitude in the military. The philosophy of individual, inalienable rights is the only one that truly stands up for the soldier who, in good conscience, wants to walk away from the horrors in which he finds himself. And so, if we respect the individual soldier, we should champion his right to quit his job.

The individualist ethic has been twisted to defend the warfare state and modern American imperialism. It is, however, to be delivered through collectivist means. This is the giveaway. This is how we know it's a bankrupt argument. Liberating individuals cannot be justly done at the expense of violating the rights of others.

For a while, individualism helped to curb the empire. A desire not to be taxed for the benefit of foreigners constrained the warfare state.

Conservatives and objectivists, among others, were well versed in the America First argument against global intervention.

But with 9/11 we saw the limits of this ethic. Individualists felt threatened and became collectivists at once. They ironically saw the American state as the collective most protective of individualism, and so favored an expansion of that collectivism to protect themselves.

But a purely egoistical ethic, much like a nationalist orientation in nonintervention, is perhaps not enough. We need to move beyond it to respect individuals abroad. The individual slaughtered in Iraq is no less an individual, no less entitled to his rights, than an individual in America taxed or regulated out of business, or thrown in jail for consuming illegal drugs. The sacrifice of foreign lives to an American imperial agenda, along with the sacrifice of American lives, freedoms and wealth, is a practice and program wholly at odds with the natural law ethic of individual liberty and dignity on which Western Civilization, and indeed all of human society, so precariously rests.

Thus do I urge us to take all the arguments we would make against communism, fascism and domestic coercive collectivism in all its forms, and apply them with equal vigor and moral courage to the issues of war and peace. It is true that we do, indeed, believe in a greater good, in public vibrancy, in civil society and in community. We are not individualists at the expense of society, but indeed see a good society itself as a function of respecting the individuals who compose it. Our arguments on economics demonstrate we are not blind to the social good that emanates from our individualist ethic. Without some sense of goodness for the individual, in fact, it is hard even to determine what a good society is. And this ethic, if it is being trampled anywhere, it is in the realm of foreign policy and the warfare state.

Communism failed because it broke too many eggs and never made an omelette. The worker's paradise constituted the total destruction of the worker as individual, the total negation of his dignity, the total trashing of his individual rights. Thus did the whole plan fail, and thank goodness.

We are seeing a similar crumbling of American society, a degeneration of civil life and cultural mores, a lowering of moral standards. We are seeing decay and cultural corruption, and while I never badmouth the market, there is a sense in which materialism has threatened to overtake cultural reflection. The greatest traditions in law and individualism itself are under attack.

We are seeing our economy stagnate and our personal freedoms lost day by day. The partisans of empire are struggling to keep alive global American hegemony, but they are on the losing side of history.

But we do want things to go as painlessly and peacefully as possible. We do not want Americans to have to suffer a shock or global markets to be tossed into disarray.

I believe the key is to reclaim, refine and always strengthen our understanding of what it is that has led to the success story of Western civilization, the Industrial Revolution and the American experience: It is respect for the dignity and humanity and rights of each individual. Insofar as this country has wavered, it has been disastrous and oppressive. Insofar as it championed these principles, humanity, culture and all we take for granted have flourished.

The warfare state is the greatest of all threats to the individual in our time. It is a threat materially, philosophically, spiritually, culturally and intellectually. It displaces all the voluntary, civil associations we champion – the family, community, church and honest business. It is the total negation of the dignity of the individual, the rights of all men and women to live their lives in liberty. It is a mixture of cold, anti-libertarian modernism and barbarism, the worst remnants of the Middle Ages combined with a new callousness and technocratic fervor. It is the most persistent form of American collectivism. It is an unparalleled threat to world peace. It is the greatest enemy of humanity and individual liberty in our midst.

One day the modern warfare state will be looked upon the way we look upon the failed socialist experiments of a past time, the way we look upon chattel slavery, the way we look upon the gravest and most universally reviled episodes of the individual being dispensed with to make way for the march of collectivism and institutional inertia.

The first step is similar to the step Ayn Rand described in Anthem, although I don't think she applied it consistently. It is to understand that the individual is the principal component of human society, and that all individuals, wherever they live, have by their nature certain rights that no government is permitted to violate. It is to realize that dispensing with this principle is to dispense with our chance at having a greater good whatsoever. It is to understand that with war come bombings, standing armies, conscription, surveillance, inflation, censorship and taxation – any of which is an affront to the dignity of the individual.

It is to understand that the warfare state, like totalitarianism, is incompatible with the individualist ethic on which society depends. Such an understanding helped prevent communism from taking root in this nation, sparing Americans the suffering so many others endured to learn the lessons of full-blown economic central planning. The American empire cannot last forever in its current state. But only by championing the rights of the individual and opposing the warfare state out of principle can we hope to see the empire crumble with as little pain as possible for those caught underneath. Only by embracing the principle of individualism – the principle that truly guards the common good and is the most damning of all indictments of the militaristic warfare state – can we hope to see the empire die and never return.

Thank you.

Snuffysmith
Springsteen: Independence Day
Arneoker
QUOTE(rla @ Jul 4 2008, 08:31 AM) *
The cultural transformation that has occured seems to me to be that patriotism was
transformed into Nationalism and religion was transformed into religosity. The major impediment
to the US being integrated into the family of Nations is our excessive patriotism and religosity.
Our country and our God is superior and of greater worth than your Country and your God.

Are you saying that other nations have less religiosity and nationalism than we do? That is probably true about Western Europe. But how about other countries?
rla
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Jul 7 2008, 09:10 AM) *
Are you saying that other nations have less religiosity and nationalism than we do? That is probably true about Western Europe. But how about other countries?

Its a mixed bag. There is, however, a strong negative correlation, across nations between both
religiosity and nationalism with a large profile of indicators of Quality of Life. There is also a significant interaction showing that high scores on both, generate a multiplier effect--not just additive.
TheRestofUs
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Jul 7 2008, 07:10 AM) *
Are you saying that other nations have less religiosity and nationalism than we do? That is probably true about Western Europe. But how about other countries?

I don't know Arn. I think rla has something here. No where I can think of are the two (nationalism and religosity) combined with military power and driven and used as a political tool to enrich an oligarchy in a super power. It is true to a degree in countries like Iran (and under a cult of personality true in North Korea), but they are a regional power not a super power.

This should not be happening here, but it is and much evil flows from it. Red White and Blue blood and gutts! Shock and Awe, and mom's apple pie, and kill em' all for "Jesus", et al.
Arneoker
QUOTE(rla @ Jul 7 2008, 10:20 AM) *
Its a mixed bag. There is, however, a strong negative correlation, across nations between both
religiosity and nationalism with a large profile of indicators of Quality of Life. There is also a significant interaction showing that high scores on both, generate a multiplier effect--not just additive.

Can you cite the relevant studies? And of course correlation does not show what is cause and what is effect.

While I think patriotism and religion are both fine things, I agree that they can be bad things when they involve nationalist hatred of other countries and sectarian hatred of other religions or the nonreligious. But one can be quite fervent in the former things and have no problem with the latter.
Arneoker
QUOTE(TheRestofUs @ Jul 7 2008, 10:22 AM) *
I don't know Arn. I think rla has something here. No where I can think of are the two (nationalism and religosity) combined with military power and driven and used as a political tool to enrich an oligarchy in a super power. It is true to a degree in countries like Iran (and under a cult of personality true in North Korea), but they are a regional power not a super power.

This should not be happening here, but it is and much evil flows from it. Red White and Blue blood and gutts! Shock and Awe, and mom's apple pie, and kill em' all for "Jesus", et al.

I actually agree that he has a point, but like patriotism and religion, it is a point which can be overdone.
TheRestofUs
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Jul 7 2008, 07:26 AM) *
I actually agree that he has a point, but like patriotism and religion, it is a point which can be overdone.

I would agree with you more about an "overdone point", if we were not now staring at the grotesque result in the example of George W Bush.
Snuffysmith
Original Content at http://www.opednews.com/articles/On-Protes...080706-660.html

July 6, 2008

On Protest and Patriotism

By David Swanson

Charlottesville Daily Progress columnist Bryan McKenzie reported on our recent protest of Bush at Monticello that we had made our point of diminishing a citizen naturalization ceremony? We did? McKenzie had plenty of communication from protesters before and after the event, all of which made perfectly clear that we wanted to NOT do that, that we wanted in fact to counter Bush's diminishment of the day and to communicate to the world that Americans oppose our president's crimes at home and abroad. McKenzie can claim that diminishing someone's day was what we in fact did and that having done so is more significant than all the days for the rest of their lives that Bush has ruined of the relatives of the people he's killed and is going to continue to kill as long as we allow him, but McKenzie can't claim that that's what we intended to do.

And, in fact, the media coverage outside the country and the vast bulk of that within it communicated well that we were protesting Bush because he has committed impeachable offenses. We, in fact, succeeded in communicating to the world that many Americans do not support Bush's crimes. We've had a ton of positive responses from around the world. We've even had positive responses from citizens who were naturalized and citizens who would have been naturalized if not for Bush's presence. We also had a meeting Sunday evening of the Charlottesville Center for Peace and Justice at which its members overwhelmingly expressed their strong disagreement with CCPJ's decision not to support the July Fourth protest of Bush.

I appreciate McKenzie covering the protest, but he should at least get right what we were protesting, even if - like the rest of the media - he doesn't develop it in any substantive way. I also appreciate him asking me to provide a statement on patriotism for him to use in Monday's paper. He's only able to include part of it, so I'd like to share the whole statement with you:

***

I'm not a fan of patriotism, nationalism, racism, religion, or anything that does more to divide people into often antagonistic groups than the benefits seem to justify. I think we should be ashamed of our schools teaching children to stand like robots and swear obedience to a piece of cloth. I think we should be frightened of how easily a president can use that piece of cloth to cover the most hideous crimes and incite the most catastrophic wars of aggression. The flag that is imposed on some 150 nations around the world in some 1,000 military bases paid for with my tax dollars is not something I can bring myself to feel warm and fuzzy over. I prefer the Virginia flag. It is associated with no military, and it bears a motto that inherently counters the tendency of rulers to use flags in a fascist manner - that is to wave them at a populace as a toreador might wave one at a bull. On the other hand, probably the single greatest step toward instituting fair and responsible government on this earth was taken on July 4, 1776, in Philadelphia. I take no pride in it, because I played no role in it, but if we manage to preserve the democratic republic that was born that day for another generation, I will take great pride in that. The indictment that was published that day reads almost entirely as an indictment of the new King George III. Our ancestors gave their lives so that we might have the rights that George Bush is stripping us of almost unchallenged. For that I am deeply ashamed and frightened.

***

That was my statement. This much made it into the newspaper:

“I’m not a fan of patriotism, nationalism, racism, religion, or anything that does more to divide people into often antagonistic groups than the benefits seem to justify. I think we should be ashamed of our schools teaching children to stand like robots and swear obedience to a piece of cloth. I think we should be frightened of how easily a president can use that piece of cloth to cover the most hideous crimes and incite the most catastrophic wars of aggression. The flag that is imposed on some 150 nations around the world in some 1,000 military bases paid for with my tax dollars is not something I can bring myself to feel warm and fuzzy over. I prefer the Virginia flag. It is associated with no military, and it bears a motto that inherently counters the tendency of rulers to use flags in a fascist manner; that is to wave them at a populace as a toreador might wave one at a bull.”

While that part can stand alone, it can also elicit responses along the lines of "Why do you hate your country?" in a way that the whole statement could not have. In fact, I am sure it will.

Arneoker
QUOTE(TheRestofUs @ Jul 7 2008, 10:30 AM) *
I would agree with you more about an "overdone point", if we were not now staring at the grotesque example of George W Bush.

Well I don't think that he shows the general worthlessness of patriotism and religion any more than he shows the general worthlessness of human beings.
Snuffysmith
Original Content at http://www.opednews.com/articles/Independe...080704-762.html

July 6, 2008

Independence Day - Thank Our Forefathers....

By Dennis Kaiser

It is, indeed, fitting that on this day, July 4, 2008, we look at where we stand according to what our nation's framers saw at the time of they composed the Declaration of Independence. That composition brought together the feelings of those citizens into a single a document.



Many of the things that forced the writing of that piece might be the same for us today. For example they write: “Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed....”

Today, a vast majority of our citizens want a hearing on impeachable offenses that may, or may not, have been committed by George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, yet their wishes go unheard or ignored by those elected officials whose duty it is to at least listen to those who put them in office. It is not sufficient to pass it off by suggesting such a hearing could affect the outcome of an upcoming election, or would take too long in the process, thus detracting from the 'important' matters that need to be addressed only to then spend hours hearing such things as steroid use in major league baseball, a matter that shouldn't involve our elected officials one iota, but should be taken up by major league baseball itself.

Maybe we could get major league baseball to hear the declarations for impeachment of Bush and Cheney. Or maybe, even more logical, not re-elect those elected officials who ignore their constituents, but march to their own agenda.

Remember, you do not put them in office to make them wealthier, but to represent you on matters that will make life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness reality.

Their document goes on to state that government should not be changed for transient matters. Our Constitution has been shredded on the basis of the trumped up “War on Terror” or the fact that we should be quivering in our shoes because people living in caves are going to attack us.

Does this mean we should not be vigilent? Of course not. Actually, we have been under attack for the past seven years, but the attack is not being conducted from outside our borders, but from within, from those among us.

It is not bin Laden who has stripped our Constitution, taking away our freedoms, our privacy from our own government. It is not Suddam Hussein who has forced our economy to modern day lows, on the brink of bankruptcy. It is not Mahmoud Ahmadinejad who decimated our working middle class and weakened our nation's sovereignty through such agreements as the Secuirty and Prosperity Partnership. This “War OF Terror” is being crafted not by outsiders, but from those within our government and the fear is there is more to come as none of the others we have placed our faith in are doing anything to stop it.


The framers of the Declaration of Independence go on to state: “The history of the present King of Great Britain [George III] is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.” (NOTE: Not all of the framers' concerns are listed here, just those that apply to our plight.)

“He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.” (Our King George has an unprecedented number of signing statements which preclude him from having to follow whatever that law pertains to.)

“He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.” (CAFTA was passed by the slimmest of votes, and that in the wee hours of the morning, well outside of the law.)

“He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.” (The Bush cabal has destroyed our three branches of government and the balance of powers they were meant to protect. Having done this he has created dictatorial powers and has stepped all over the rights of the people in many ways, including having proper representation.)

“He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.” (Gore 2000, Kerry 2004, Clelland, McKinney, Wellstone, Daschle, and soon to be Obama.)

“He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.” (His cabal has fired judges for not abiding by the wishes of the cabal. He has reduced the Judiciary to a level where it is a laughing stock.)


“He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.” (See above)

“He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.” (Homeland Security, Negroponte's group to establish a database on all citizens, the Security and Prosperity Partnership, to name a few.)

“He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.” (The military complex has risen to where it is costing the tax payer the major portion of the dollar. Some have estimated that $.42 of every tax dollar goes to the military.)

“He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation....” (Every “free trade” agreement we have entered in to has been developed by mega-corporations. The soon to be Security and Prosperity Partnership has had no Congressional input as it was agreed upon by Bush, Fox, and Harper of the US, Mexico, and Canada, respectively. Congress has had no say as to whether we should enter the agreement nor will it have any say as to whether we should stay in it. As in other “free trade” agreements, should a dispute arise between a national or local law and a mega corporation, it will be determined by an appointed mediation counsel. The counsel will be appointed by the World Bank. Counsel, historically, have been comprised of attorneys out of the corporate complex. National laws have little or no bearing on the outcome, thereby national or local laws are rendered meaningless for all intent and purpose.)

So, on this Independence Day we can reflect and see that we are basically in the same plight as our framers were over 230 years ago. One thing that may separate them apart from us is that they did something about their situation.

What are we going to do?


Authors Website: http://notseeamerica.com/nsa.html
TheRestofUs
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Jul 7 2008, 07:32 AM) *
Well I don't think that he shows the general worthlessness of patriotism and religion any more than he shows the general worthlessness of human beings.

I didn't say, nor do I think rla said that patriotism and religion were worthless. Just that in distorted forms; gross nationalism and religiosity, grown out of xenophobia, racism, fear, and just general meanspiritedness, have gone a long way to giving us what festers in the White House as we speak.
rla
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Jul 7 2008, 09:25 AM) *
Can you cite the relevant studies? And of course correlation does not show what is cause and what is effect.

While I think patriotism and religion are both fine things, I agree that they can be bad things when they involve nationalist hatred of other countries and sectarian hatred of other religions or the nonreligious. But one can be quite fervent in the former things and have no problem with the latter.

This was covered at length with several review articles on another Thread but I don't remember where...I think I'll wait for someone to disprove it.
Arneoker
QUOTE(rla @ Jul 7 2008, 10:39 AM) *
This was covered at length with several review articles on another Thread but I don't remember where...I think I'll wait for someone to disprove it.

Well I will have to wait on someone to prove it!

Now these might be very legitimate studies, but some possible difficulties come to mind. For one, how would they measure the "religiosity" and "nationalism" of a country?
rla
QUOTE(TheRestofUs @ Jul 7 2008, 09:39 AM) *
I didn't say, nor do I think rla said that patriotism and religion were worthless. Just that in distorted forms; gross nationalism and religiosity, grown out of xenophobia, racism, fear, and just general meanspiritedness, have gone a long way to giving us what festers in the White House as we speak.

Yes, everything that is, is relative and human beings tend to do too much of what they like to do and do well and not enough of what we need to do.
Arneoker
QUOTE(TheRestofUs @ Jul 7 2008, 10:39 AM) *
I didn't say, nor do I think rla said that patriotism and religion were worthless. Just that in distorted forms; gross nationalism and religiosity, grown out of xenophobia, racism, fear, and just general meanspiritedness, have gone a long way to giving us what festers in the White House as we speak.

Well I have no problem with the way you put it here.
TheRestofUs
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Jul 7 2008, 07:43 AM) *
Well I will have to wait on someone to prove it!

Now these might be very legitimate studies, but some possible difficulties come to mind. For one, how would they measure the "religiosity" and "nationalism" of a country?

I would use a touchstone garnered from Christ. "Do unto others..." What I mean is that when either "nationalism" or "religion" attempt to impose themselves on any "other" they are crossing the aforementioned line.
Arneoker
QUOTE(TheRestofUs @ Jul 7 2008, 10:46 AM) *
I would use a touchstone garnered from Christ. "Do unto others..." What I mean is that when either "nationalism" or "religion" attempt to impose themselves on any "other" they are crossing the aforementioned line.

That is pretty much what I just said. But how does one measure that kind of thing in a study? Or do they measure the number of "hate crimes"? You could do that, but is that all there is to measuring "religiosity" and "nationalism"? One could have very xenophobic attitudes but never ever perpetrate violence.
rla
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Jul 7 2008, 09:43 AM) *
Well I will have to wait on someone to prove it!

Now these might be very legitimate studies, but some possible difficulties come to mind. For one, how would they measure the "religiosity" and "nationalism" of a country?

Hopefully with scores on psychometrically valid and reliable survey instrument. Unfortunately
our Research is limited by corruption and incompetence, just as are our other Organizational outputs.
Arneoker
QUOTE(rla @ Jul 7 2008, 10:50 AM) *
Hopefully with scores on psychometrically valid and reliable survey instrument. Unfortunately
our Research is limited by corruption and incompetence, just as are our other Organizational outputs.

I would have to know something about that instrument. At least a little.

Our research is also limited by researchers using invalid and unreliable survey instruments. Designing good one can be quite a challenge even for very competent researchers, depending on just what you are trying to measure.
TheRestofUs
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Jul 7 2008, 07:50 AM) *
That is pretty much what I just said. But how does one measure that kind of thing in a study? Or do they measure the number of "hate crimes"? You could do that, but is that all there is to measuring "religiosity" and "nationalism"? One could have very xenophobic attitudes but never ever perpetrate violence.

Well I think rla pointed to the problem with "studies". Academia itself is affected when in a society a culture is nurtured that encourages the worst "angels" of our nature. I would say that history from a long hindsight vantage point is all that can inform us about how to measure such things. We could just measure how many innocent people have lost their lives due to the enacting of policies during a particular political era. But those today like rla and others who can see what is culturally poisonous, while it is happening, are alas voices shouting in the wilderness.
Snuffysmith

What Patriotism Is, and Is Not
Thursday 03 July 2008

by: Michael Winship, t r u t h o u t | Perspective


On Monday, Senator Barack Obama discussed American history, his own patriotism, and the need for service and sacrifice.
(Photo: AP)

At the beginning of the week, a friend sent me a scurrilous, anonymous e-mail attacking Barack Obama that has been circulating around her elderly cousin's senior living community in New Jersey. Headlined "Something to Think About," it lists 13 acts of assassination, kidnapping, war and terrorism, all of which, it notes, were committed "by Muslim male extremists between the ages of 17 and 40." After several other claims, including a bogus citation from the Book of Revelation, the e-mail concludes, semi-literately, "For the award winning Act of Stupidity Now ... the People of America want to elect, to the most Powerful position on the face of the Planet - The Presidency of the United States of America to A Muslim Male Between the ages of 17 and 40? Have the American People completely lost their Minds, or just their power of reason? I'm sorry but I refuse to take a chance on the 'unknown' candidate Obama."

To point out the obvious errors, that Barack Obama's a Christian, not Muslim, and that he's 46, not "between the ages of 17 and 40," feels a bit lame, like damning with faint fact-checking. Let's call this appalling missive what it is - bigoted, hysterical and more than a little nuts. Unless, of course, it comes from the hands not of a mere delusional crank, but one of those beneath-the-radar smear forces that we all know are out there, ratcheting into higher and higher gear as November gets closer.

E-mails such as the one my friend passed along are insidious, appealing to our deepest fears and prejudices. A front-page story in Monday's Washington Post profiled retired worker Jim Peterman of Findlay, Ohio. He's a decent guy who "believes a smart vote is an American's greatest responsibility," the Post's Eli Salsow wrote. "Which is why his confusion about Barack Obama continues to eat at him ...

"Does he trust a local newspaper article that details Obama's Christian faith? Or his friend Leroy Pollard, a devoted family man so convinced Obama is a radical Muslim that he threatened to stop talking to his daughter when he heard she might vote for him?

"'I'll admit that I probably don't follow all of the election news like maybe I should,' Peterman said. 'I haven't read his books or studied up more than a little bit. But it's hard to ignore what you hear when everybody you know is saying it. These are good people, smart people, so can they really all be wrong?'"

So it goes across the nation. Chances are, many of the perpetrators of this nonsense think they're being patriots, saving us from Obama and ourselves. And goodness knows, there's a long history of this kind of guttersnipery in American politics. As Obama pointed out in his Monday speech on the nature of patriotism, "Thomas Jefferson was accused by the Federalists of selling out to the French. The anti-Federalists were just as convinced that John Adams was in cahoots with the British and intent on restoring monarchal rule ... the use of patriotism as a political sword or a political shield is as old as the Republic."

Details of Obama's speech got buried in the wake of General Wesley Clark's politically lunkheaded comment about John McCain that, "I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to become president." But over the Fourth of July weekend, it might be appropriate and enlightening to take a few minutes to read or watch the whole thing.

It's a good speech. The senator talks about American history and his own patriotism, about the need for service and sacrifice. "For those who have fought under the flag of this nation," he said, "for the young veterans I meet when I visit Walter Reed; for those like John McCain who have endured physical torment in service to our country - no further proof of such sacrifice is necessary. And let me also add that no one should ever devalue that service, especially for the sake of a political campaign, and that goes for supporters on both sides."

And this: "I believe those who attack America's flaws without acknowledging the singular greatness of our ideals, and their proven capacity to inspire a better world, do not truly understand America.... But when our laws, our leaders or our government are out of alignment with our ideals, then the dissent of ordinary Americans may prove to be one of the truest expressions of patriotism."

Which brings me to what I think was an unusual and especially fine expression of American patriotism. It's the June 19 closing argument of Air Force Reserve Maj. David J.R. Frakt, arguing for the dismissal of charges against Mohammed Jawad, a young detainee at Guantanamo, charged with throwing a hand grenade that wounded two GI's and their interpreter in Afghanistan. Frakt argued that Jawad should be released because sleep deprivation - two weeks' worth - was used to torture him. You can read it on the web site of the ACLU.

Frakt stood before the military commission upholding the inviolability of the American principle of due process, even for an alleged enemy of the United States. "Under the Constitution all men are created equal, and all are entitled to be treated with dignity," he said. "No one is 'undeserving' of humane treatment. It is an unmistakable lesson of history that when one group of people starts to see another group of people as 'other' or as 'different,' as 'undeserving,' as 'inferior,' ill treatment inevitably follows ...

"After six and a half years, we now know the truth about the detainees at Guantanamo: some of them are terrorists, some of them are foot soldiers, and some of them were just innocent people, caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. But the detainees at Guantanamo have one thing in common - with each other, and with us - they are all human beings, and they are all worthy of humane treatment."

Thus, in the face of adverse public opinion and White House opposition, Frakt bravely defended a constitutional principle as all-encompassing, including under its protections even those who might seek to destroy us and the very constitutional principles for which we stand. In fact, he said, "It is a testament to the continuing greatness of this nation, that I, a lowly Air Force Reserve major, can stand here before you today, with the world watching, without fear of retribution, retaliation or reprisal, and speak truth to power. I can call a spade a spade, and I can call torture, torture."

To me, that makes Maj. David Frakt a patriot and this a great country. Happy Fourth of July.

rla
QUOTE(Snuffysmith @ Jul 7 2008, 10:53 AM) *
What Patriotism Is, and Is Not
Thursday 03 July 2008

by: Michael Winship, t r u t h o u t | Perspective


On Monday, Senator Barack Obama discussed American history, his own patriotism, and the need for service and sacrifice.
(Photo: AP)

At the beginning of the week, a friend sent me a scurrilous, anonymous e-mail attacking Barack Obama that has been circulating around her elderly cousin's senior living community in New Jersey. Headlined "Something to Think About," it lists 13 acts of assassination, kidnapping, war and terrorism, all of which, it notes, were committed "by Muslim male extremists between the ages of 17 and 40." After several other claims, including a bogus citation from the Book of Revelation, the e-mail concludes, semi-literately, "For the award winning Act of Stupidity Now ... the People of America want to elect, to the most Powerful position on the face of the Planet - The Presidency of the United States of America to A Muslim Male Between the ages of 17 and 40? Have the American People completely lost their Minds, or just their power of reason? I'm sorry but I refuse to take a chance on the 'unknown' candidate Obama."

To point out the obvious errors, that Barack Obama's a Christian, not Muslim, and that he's 46, not "between the ages of 17 and 40," feels a bit lame, like damning with faint fact-checking. Let's call this appalling missive what it is - bigoted, hysterical and more than a little nuts. Unless, of course, it comes from the hands not of a mere delusional crank, but one of those beneath-the-radar smear forces that we all know are out there, ratcheting into higher and higher gear as November gets closer.

E-mails such as the one my friend passed along are insidious, appealing to our deepest fears and prejudices. A front-page story in Monday's Washington Post profiled retired worker Jim Peterman of Findlay, Ohio. He's a decent guy who "believes a smart vote is an American's greatest responsibility," the Post's Eli Salsow wrote. "Which is why his confusion about Barack Obama continues to eat at him ...

"Does he trust a local newspaper article that details Obama's Christian faith? Or his friend Leroy Pollard, a devoted family man so convinced Obama is a radical Muslim that he threatened to stop talking to his daughter when he heard she might vote for him?

"'I'll admit that I probably don't follow all of the election news like maybe I should,' Peterman said. 'I haven't read his books or studied up more than a little bit. But it's hard to ignore what you hear when everybody you know is saying it. These are good people, smart people, so can they really all be wrong?'"

So it goes across the nation. Chances are, many of the perpetrators of this nonsense think they're being patriots, saving us from Obama and ourselves. And goodness knows, there's a long history of this kind of guttersnipery in American politics. As Obama pointed out in his Monday speech on the nature of patriotism, "Thomas Jefferson was accused by the Federalists of selling out to the French. The anti-Federalists were just as convinced that John Adams was in cahoots with the British and intent on restoring monarchal rule ... the use of patriotism as a political sword or a political shield is as old as the Republic."

Details of Obama's speech got buried in the wake of General Wesley Clark's politically lunkheaded comment about John McCain that, "I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to become president." But over the Fourth of July weekend, it might be appropriate and enlightening to take a few minutes to read or watch the whole thing.

It's a good speech. The senator talks about American history and his own patriotism, about the need for service and sacrifice. "For those who have fought under the flag of this nation," he said, "for the young veterans I meet when I visit Walter Reed; for those like John McCain who have endured physical torment in service to our country - no further proof of such sacrifice is necessary. And let me also add that no one should ever devalue that service, especially for the sake of a political campaign, and that goes for supporters on both sides."

And this: "I believe those who attack America's flaws without acknowledging the singular greatness of our ideals, and their proven capacity to inspire a better world, do not truly understand America.... But when our laws, our leaders or our government are out of alignment with our ideals, then the dissent of ordinary Americans may prove to be one of the truest expressions of patriotism."

Which brings me to what I think was an unusual and especially fine expression of American patriotism. It's the June 19 closing argument of Air Force Reserve Maj. David J.R. Frakt, arguing for the dismissal of charges against Mohammed Jawad, a young detainee at Guantanamo, charged with throwing a hand grenade that wounded two GI's and their interpreter in Afghanistan. Frakt argued that Jawad should be released because sleep deprivation - two weeks' worth - was used to torture him. You can read it on the web site of the ACLU.

Frakt stood before the military commission upholding the inviolability of the American principle of due process, even for an alleged enemy of the United States. "Under the Constitution all men are created equal, and all are entitled to be treated with dignity," he said. "No one is 'undeserving' of humane treatment. It is an unmistakable lesson of history that when one group of people starts to see another group of people as 'other' or as 'different,' as 'undeserving,' as 'inferior,' ill treatment inevitably follows ...

"After six and a half years, we now know the truth about the detainees at Guantanamo: some of them are terrorists, some of them are foot soldiers, and some of them were just innocent people, caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. But the detainees at Guantanamo have one thing in common - with each other, and with us - they are all human beings, and they are all worthy of humane treatment."

Thus, in the face of adverse public opinion and White House opposition, Frakt bravely defended a constitutional principle as all-encompassing, including under its protections even those who might seek to destroy us and the very constitutional principles for which we stand. In fact, he said, "It is a testament to the continuing greatness of this nation, that I, a lowly Air Force Reserve major, can stand here before you today, with the world watching, without fear of retribution, retaliation or reprisal, and speak truth to power. I can call a spade a spade, and I can call torture, torture."

To me, that makes Maj. David Frakt a patriot and this a great country. Happy Fourth of July.

I can't think of a better example of Patriotism, for celebrating those who chose to make their Contribution with Military Service...the leap of faith in Independence, of the founders was in addition to their accomplished citizenship status of British Gentlemen and Journeymen. This movement certainly had its Military component (which was especially critical in the early days and these days)...
Then, as now in Iraq, Military strength is at best, part of a larger solution. A critical mass for a paradygm shift in the Relation of the individual person and the encompassing social system occured
then, as it is now occuring again. The need for a Person-centered, Community-based, Nationally
Guaranteed and Internationally Sanctioned Social System has finally become Obvious to just about everybody. The question open for discussion is, How?
Livyjr
QUOTE(Snuffysmith @ Jul 6 2008, 09:52 PM) *
The Real Meaning of the Fourth of July

Instead, the real significance of the Fourth of July lies in the expression of what is undoubtedly the most revolutionary political declaration in history: that man’s rights are inherent, God-given, and natural and, thus, do not come from government.

Throughout history, people have believed that their rights come from government.

Such being the case, people haven’t objected whenever government officials infringed upon their rights.

Since rights were considered to be government-bestowed privileges, the thinking went, why shouldn’t government officials have the power to regulate or suspend such privileges at will?

The Declaration of Independence upended that age-old notion of rights.

All men — not just Americans — have been endowed by God and nature, not government, with fundamental and unalienable rights.

Governments are called into existence by the people — and exist at their pleasure — for one purpose: to protect the exercise of these inherent rights.

What happens if a government that people have established becomes a destroyer, rather than a protector, of their rights?

The Declaration provides the answer: It is the right of the people to alter or even abolish their government and establish new government whose purpose is the protection, not the destruction, of people’s rights and freedoms.

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights must be construed in light of that revolutionary statement of rights in the Declaration of Independence.

QUOTE(Snuffysmith @ Jul 7 2008, 07:29 AM) *
I think his point on natural law though is relevant and that is in the documents.

Indeed it is, Snuf ...

And that is an essential point to make in here ...

After the Declaration of Independence was signed, the first constitution of the 13 original "united states" was Massachusetts ....

The first sentence of its Preamble is as follows:

The end of the institution, maintenance, and administration of government, is to secure the existence of the body politic, to protect it, and to furnish the individuals who compose it with the power of enjoying in safety and tranquillity their natural rights, and the blessings of life: and whenever these great objects are not obtained, the people have a right to alter the government, and to take measures necessary for their safety, prosperity and happiness.

There is NATURAL LAW embodied right in the very first sentence ...

This constitution was drafted or crafted by John Adams, who was the 2d president of the USA ...

Article I stated as follows with respect to NATURAL LAW:

All men are born free and equal, and have certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property; in fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness.

And then there is Article V:

All power residing originally in the people, and being derived from them, the several magistrates and officers of government, vested with authority, whether legislative, executive, or judicial, are their substitutes and agents, and are at all times accountable to them.

And I think that Article XVII is especially relevant to both this thread and the times the world finds itself in with George W. "STINK OF DEATH IS UPON HIM" Bush's army of conquest out there in the field in IRAQINAM right now as we speak:

And as, in time of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be maintained without the consent of the legislature; and the military power shall always be held in an exact subordination to the civil authority, and be governed by it.

And so ...
piccadilly
QUOTE(Livyjr @ Jul 6 2008, 07:09 PM) *
QUOTE