Full Version: A Dead Even Race
McCain will never get above 45% of the popular vote. That is his problem. Its not about Obama. Its people in his own party who dislike him. Its him hugging Bush. The 2000 McCain was electable. The Bush hugging McCain is not. He is old and washed up. He is out there because the Republicans had to run someone. He is the Dole of 2008. I will be voting stright Democrat. Its not because I am in love with Obama. Its because Republicans suck. They have made a big mess and want to continue the same stuff.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Strong Dem (197)
Weak Dem (46)
Barely Dem (73)
That's your arguement?
Now take a look at the content, format and depth of both sites:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/
Still comfortable? A man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest.
Strong Dem (197)
Weak Dem (46)
Barely Dem (73)
That's your arguement?
Now take a look at the content, format and depth of both sites:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/
Still comfortable? A man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest.
YOU yourself should look at how week McCain's stats are
he has almost NO strong votes
Better to be ahead since the first day, not one day has he been behind, then be behind
especially as McCain is older than the hills, and getting older every day
And most people never heard of Keating or Enron...wait'll they do
It is possible that Democratic 527 groups like Moveon.org will hit back hard (like running ads accusing McCain of taking bribes from convicted felon Charles Keating), but Obama won't touch that kind of stuff with a barge pole. (though he should).
he has almost NO strong votes
Better to be ahead since the first day, not one day has he been behind, then be behind
especially as McCain is older than the hills, and getting older every day
And most people never heard of Keating or Enron...wait'll they do
It is possible that Democratic 527 groups like Moveon.org will hit back hard (like running ads accusing McCain of taking bribes from convicted felon Charles Keating), but Obama won't touch that kind of stuff with a barge pole. (though he should).
and Paul Simon would not like your what some consider racist posts either
He might just sick Julio on you if he wasn't down by the school yard
He might just sick Julio on you if he wasn't down by the school yard
I always figured it mattered who ended strongest.
Do you claim all celebrities?...Savalis, Simon, Obama, Britney, Paris?
Do you claim all celebrities?...Savalis, Simon, Obama, Britney, Paris?
QUOTE(Indianhead @ Aug 2 2008, 06:05 PM) 
I always figured it mattered who ended strongest.
Do you claim all celebrities?...Savalis, Simon, Obama, Britney, Paris?
Do you claim all celebrities?...Savalis, Simon, Obama, Britney, Paris?
you can keep Darryl Worley, Sarah Evans, Ted Nugent Rush Limbo Sean Hannity and 2 draftpicks for later
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 2 2008, 05:11 PM)
you can keep Darryl Worley, Sarah Evans, Ted Nugent Rush Limbo Sean Hannity and 2 draftpicks for later
Don't know the first 2, like Nugent, and not the last 2...but I like the humor...touche' mon amie.
http://www.arcamax.com/clarencepage
(or thousands of subscribing newspapers)
Obama Hasn't Closed The Deal Yet
By Clarence Page, Tribune Media Services
Some of my Chicago friends who support Sen. Barack Obama already are speaking as if his victory is a done deal. I hate to burst their bubbles, but a nagging question still haunts Obama euphoria: Why isn't he further ahead in the polls?
After all, they gush, his superbly managed campaign of "hope" and "change" seems to be humming along, as strong as the euro against the dollar. The popularity of his rival Sen. John McCain's Republican brand is as weak as a subprime mortgage.
Yet after running as much as nine points ahead of McCain in major polls, Obama's lead has mostly evaporated, especially in key Midwestern industrial swing states like Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Why?
I think a big reason is McCain's refusal to be scary or outrageous enough.
Although he has yet to win the hearts and minds of his party's conservative base, Republicans could hardly have picked a better candidate in this, their hour of woe. He has maintained enough of his maverick image to resist Democratic efforts to re-brand him as Bush's third term.
Sure, his policies have flip-flopped like the political equivalent of Twister. But Obama has sashayed toward the political middle, too. That's what candidates do in general election campaigns, especially in the dog days of summer. Voters start paying closer attention in the fall. That leaves time for a lot of late-summer dancing.
A second big reason we journalists love to cite is advisors. McCain hired Steve Schmidt, a protege of Karl Rove who has introduced Rove's famous brand of hardball attacks at Obama's perceived weak points: Suddenly we see Obama's charisma recast as empty-headed "celebrity." His freshness is remade into inexperience. His seriousness is recast as hubris and arrogance. His empathy is recast as "elitist."
Sen. Hillary Clinton tried much of this during the primaries. It didn't put her over the top, but it kept her in the race, especially with white working-class voters over age 50. Boomers and older voters have been less enamored of Obama than the young and college-educated. McCain, too, has gotten back into the race, judging by the polls, just in time to wage a competitive campaign in the fall.
How much of an obstacle is Obama's biracial background? That's hard to say in a society that long ago rendered "racist" to be as much of a taboo word among whites as the N-word is among blacks. As a result, a lot of us look for any sign of coded racial appeals and our imaginations run wild. Some see racism in the juxtaposition of two blondes - Britney Spears and Paris Hilton - in a McCain ad attacking Obama's "celebrity. Republican analyst David Gergen sees the "arrogant" charge against Obama as new racial code for the old-South label "uppity." It does have a familiar ring, doesn't it?
Reporter Amy Chozick in a Wall Street Journal essay stirred up a lot of pundit and blogger buzz by musing that Obama's skinny physique might be a disadvantage in our notoriously overweight nation. She cited a memo to reporters by McCain campaign manager Rick Davis. Explaining McCain's recent attack ad that tries to paint Obama as an empty-suit celebrity, Davis' memo mentions, "Only celebrities like Barack Obama go to the gym three times a day." Gee, thanks for giving me a new excuse to skip my workout, Rick.
Smelling a rat -- or maybe fat -- Timothy Noah responded in the Web magazine Slate that skinniness might be a code word for black. "This physical attribute looms large in our nation's history as a source of prejudice," he writes. If so, I wonder if might there be new hope in the sex appeal department for us guys who sport Tony Soprano physiques? Somehow I think not.
Racist or not, we have learned this much from Obama's campaign: Any day in which race is the big topic of discussion is not a good day for Obama. His rapid rise benefited ironically from his ability to "transcend race," we have been told repeatedly. That's another way of saying that he seemed to offer Americans a way to reduce race to something that would not matter anymore. Americans want to believe that race doesn't matter and apparently we will only believe it if we hear a black person say it.
Race alone does not explain Obama's polling gap. Had Colin Powell run, with his military background and other experience, he would not have had the same problems persuading undecided voters that Obama has faced. Obama's best remedy may come from his choice of a running mate. I don't know whom he will pick, but I have a feeling that no skinny, black Harvard grads need apply. I'm sure they will understand why.
(or thousands of subscribing newspapers)
Obama Hasn't Closed The Deal Yet
By Clarence Page, Tribune Media Services
Some of my Chicago friends who support Sen. Barack Obama already are speaking as if his victory is a done deal. I hate to burst their bubbles, but a nagging question still haunts Obama euphoria: Why isn't he further ahead in the polls?
After all, they gush, his superbly managed campaign of "hope" and "change" seems to be humming along, as strong as the euro against the dollar. The popularity of his rival Sen. John McCain's Republican brand is as weak as a subprime mortgage.
Yet after running as much as nine points ahead of McCain in major polls, Obama's lead has mostly evaporated, especially in key Midwestern industrial swing states like Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Why?
I think a big reason is McCain's refusal to be scary or outrageous enough.
Although he has yet to win the hearts and minds of his party's conservative base, Republicans could hardly have picked a better candidate in this, their hour of woe. He has maintained enough of his maverick image to resist Democratic efforts to re-brand him as Bush's third term.
Sure, his policies have flip-flopped like the political equivalent of Twister. But Obama has sashayed toward the political middle, too. That's what candidates do in general election campaigns, especially in the dog days of summer. Voters start paying closer attention in the fall. That leaves time for a lot of late-summer dancing.
A second big reason we journalists love to cite is advisors. McCain hired Steve Schmidt, a protege of Karl Rove who has introduced Rove's famous brand of hardball attacks at Obama's perceived weak points: Suddenly we see Obama's charisma recast as empty-headed "celebrity." His freshness is remade into inexperience. His seriousness is recast as hubris and arrogance. His empathy is recast as "elitist."
Sen. Hillary Clinton tried much of this during the primaries. It didn't put her over the top, but it kept her in the race, especially with white working-class voters over age 50. Boomers and older voters have been less enamored of Obama than the young and college-educated. McCain, too, has gotten back into the race, judging by the polls, just in time to wage a competitive campaign in the fall.
How much of an obstacle is Obama's biracial background? That's hard to say in a society that long ago rendered "racist" to be as much of a taboo word among whites as the N-word is among blacks. As a result, a lot of us look for any sign of coded racial appeals and our imaginations run wild. Some see racism in the juxtaposition of two blondes - Britney Spears and Paris Hilton - in a McCain ad attacking Obama's "celebrity. Republican analyst David Gergen sees the "arrogant" charge against Obama as new racial code for the old-South label "uppity." It does have a familiar ring, doesn't it?
Reporter Amy Chozick in a Wall Street Journal essay stirred up a lot of pundit and blogger buzz by musing that Obama's skinny physique might be a disadvantage in our notoriously overweight nation. She cited a memo to reporters by McCain campaign manager Rick Davis. Explaining McCain's recent attack ad that tries to paint Obama as an empty-suit celebrity, Davis' memo mentions, "Only celebrities like Barack Obama go to the gym three times a day." Gee, thanks for giving me a new excuse to skip my workout, Rick.
Smelling a rat -- or maybe fat -- Timothy Noah responded in the Web magazine Slate that skinniness might be a code word for black. "This physical attribute looms large in our nation's history as a source of prejudice," he writes. If so, I wonder if might there be new hope in the sex appeal department for us guys who sport Tony Soprano physiques? Somehow I think not.
Racist or not, we have learned this much from Obama's campaign: Any day in which race is the big topic of discussion is not a good day for Obama. His rapid rise benefited ironically from his ability to "transcend race," we have been told repeatedly. That's another way of saying that he seemed to offer Americans a way to reduce race to something that would not matter anymore. Americans want to believe that race doesn't matter and apparently we will only believe it if we hear a black person say it.
Race alone does not explain Obama's polling gap. Had Colin Powell run, with his military background and other experience, he would not have had the same problems persuading undecided voters that Obama has faced. Obama's best remedy may come from his choice of a running mate. I don't know whom he will pick, but I have a feeling that no skinny, black Harvard grads need apply. I'm sure they will understand why.
QUOTE(Indianhead @ Aug 2 2008, 03:05 PM)
I always figured it mattered who ended strongest.
Do you claim all celebrities?...Savalis, Simon, Obama, Britney, Paris?
Do you claim all celebrities?...Savalis, Simon, Obama, Britney, Paris?
Obama has a (admittedly not very long) track record of surging at the right time, even though there is no such thing as a comfortable position in this race I think it's preferable to a huge lead at this point.Clear early leaders tend to lose because they become the main target, in fact McCain is benefitting from being slightly behind.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/...etains-an-edge/
August 9, 2008
Poll of polls: Obama retains an edge
Posted: 10:09 AM ET
From CNN Deputy Political Director Paul Steinhauser
WASHINGTON (CNN) – Call it a numbers game. With 87 days to go until the presidential election, our latest CNN Poll of polls shows Barack Obama leading John McCain by five points, 46 percent to 41 percent, with thirteen percent of Americans undecided.
The Poll of polls released Wednesday found an indentical result.
The CNN Poll of Polls is an average of the latest national polls. Our newest edition consists of three surveys, a CBS poll taken from July 31 to August 5, an AP-IPSOS survey conducted from July 31 to August 4, and a Gallup tracking poll taken from August 5 to August 7. Because it’s an average of a number of surveys, our Poll of polls does not have a sampling error.
As we always caution, the presidential election is not a battle for the national vote — rather, it’s a state by state fight for electoral votes. While national polls are important, they are far from the only barometer in determining where the presidential contest stands right now.
--------------------
As one among the 13% I understand.
August 9, 2008
Poll of polls: Obama retains an edge
Posted: 10:09 AM ET
From CNN Deputy Political Director Paul Steinhauser
WASHINGTON (CNN) – Call it a numbers game. With 87 days to go until the presidential election, our latest CNN Poll of polls shows Barack Obama leading John McCain by five points, 46 percent to 41 percent, with thirteen percent of Americans undecided.
The Poll of polls released Wednesday found an indentical result.
The CNN Poll of Polls is an average of the latest national polls. Our newest edition consists of three surveys, a CBS poll taken from July 31 to August 5, an AP-IPSOS survey conducted from July 31 to August 4, and a Gallup tracking poll taken from August 5 to August 7. Because it’s an average of a number of surveys, our Poll of polls does not have a sampling error.
As we always caution, the presidential election is not a battle for the national vote — rather, it’s a state by state fight for electoral votes. While national polls are important, they are far from the only barometer in determining where the presidential contest stands right now.
--------------------
As one among the 13% I understand.
as the pollsters state
except in races with outright thefts
those that lead in continous patterns end up winning
and a 5% popular vote win, means 425 to 450 electoral vote landslide
and a 3% popular vote win, means 300 to 400
as there is not one blue state McCain is converting, and Obama is winning 4 to 6 red states, and close in
others,
Obama can easily win this race and lose Florida and Ohio
note that add up Obama/McCain and it equals 87
put then in 5 for Barr
4 for Nader
and it only leaves 4 percent undecided
ta ta and ha ha
except in races with outright thefts
those that lead in continous patterns end up winning
and a 5% popular vote win, means 425 to 450 electoral vote landslide
and a 3% popular vote win, means 300 to 400
as there is not one blue state McCain is converting, and Obama is winning 4 to 6 red states, and close in
others,
Obama can easily win this race and lose Florida and Ohio
note that add up Obama/McCain and it equals 87
put then in 5 for Barr
4 for Nader
and it only leaves 4 percent undecided
ta ta and ha ha
daily gallup
Obama 47
McCain 42
5 point lead
McCain never was over 44 in this poll.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/109348/Gallup-D...-McCain-42.aspx
Obama 47
McCain 42
5 point lead
McCain never was over 44 in this poll.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/109348/Gallup-D...-McCain-42.aspx
Democrats on edge as Obama's high profile fails to deliver big poll lead
Ewen MacAskill in Washington The Guardian, Saturday August 9 2008 Article history
Before flying with his family for a week's holiday in Hawaii yesterday, Barack Obama expressed concern about taking a break in election year. "During the middle of a campaign you're always worried about taking some time off," he said.
He may have good reason to worry. He leaves behind a Democratic party that over the past fortnight has been showing signs for the first time of nervousness about the November 4 election.
For them, this is supposed to be the Democrats' year, an inevitable march towards the White House after the catastrophic defeats of 2000 and 2004. Almost everything seems to be going their way: unpopular president, disenchantment with the Iraq war, a faltering economy and an inspirational Democratic candidate.
What is worrying the Democrats, in spite of all these pluses, is that Obama's poll lead has remained stubbornly small. A tracking poll by RealClearPolitics published yesterday has Obama on 46.9% compared with John McCain's 43.3%.
"I think there are a lot of Democrats who are nervous," said Tad Devine, chief strategist for the Kerry White House bid in 2004. "I think they thought this election would fall into their laps."
Devine stressed that he was not among the pessimists and cautioned against what he described as "an artificial expectation that he needs to be way ahead at this time".
But the concern among Democrats is not just over the size of the poll lead but over the impact of negative ads from McCain over the last two weeks that have reawakened bitter memories of Republican tactics in 2000 and 2004.
Since the heady days of Obama's address in Berlin in front of an adoring crowd of 200,000 last month, the Democrat has been on the receiving end of ads from McCain portraying him as a celebrity-driven egotist and an elitist out of touch with the American public.
"Obama's bubble has not burst but it is leaking," said Peter Brown, assistant director at one of the country's leading pollsters, the Connecticut-based Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. He found it significant that when those surveyed were asked whether they want Democrats or Republicans to win, Democrats emerged with a double-digit lead, but when asked about Obama or McCain, Obama's lead was only in single figures.
Brown said that while the expectation is that Obama would win, "history is replete with northern liberals who end up losing".
McCain, who has struggled since the spring to win media attention, has finally achieved media parity with Obama over the last fortnight because of his negative campaign. Race has been raised as an issue, though McCain accuses Obama of bringing it up first.
But the central theme is to portray Obama - shown repeatedly against the backdrop of the Berlin crowds- as messianic, with an ad comparing him to Moses, and too fond of celebrity status, with his image placed alongside Paris Hilton and Britney Spears.
A quiz on a Republican website invites readers to guess whether quotes were from Obama, the actors Cameron Diaz and Matt Damon, David Beckham or some other celebrity. The quotes include: "Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?" The answer is Obama.
McCain, in spite of being richer than Obama and with a taste for expensive living, such as $520 Ferragamo shoes, presents himself as closer to the grittier world of working-class America. He told a rally of bikers in South Dakota this week: "Not long ago, a couple of hundred thousand Berliners made a lot of noise for my opponent. I'll take the roar of 50,000 Harleys any day."
The decision to go for the individual rather than policy is a big decision for any politician but especially for McCain, who suffered badly from negative tactics in the 2000 Republican primary contests at the hands of George Bush and his strategist, Karl Rove. The night he lost, McCain was bouncing around his hotel room in a rage, with his wife Cindy weeping, over his treatment.
Lack of impact
McCain promised to fight an honourable, positive and respectful campaign against Obama but, unable to make an impact, he put aside his resentment over what happened in 2000 and called in a Rove protege, Steve Schmidt.
In an interview with the Washington Post last week, McCain defended the change of personnel and tactics . "If I win this campaign," he said, "historians will say, 'He was a genius.'"
A media backlash against Obama was inevitable and a poll this week by the Pew research organisation suggested the public too were growing weary of the high media exposure and would like to see less of him. Two anti-Obama biographies published this week, the first such books, shot to the top of bestseller lists.
The Obama team remains outwardly calm. As they did during the fight for the Democratic nomination, even when trailing Clinton by 30%, they are quietly sticking to their game plan, filling in gaps in Obama's narrative, focusing on domestic issues and raising the millions needed to outspend the Republicans.
Professor Michael McDonald, who has built a reputation for number-crunching poll figures at Virginia's George Mason University, acknowledged the negative campaigning had energised Republicans. But there was a downside for the Republicans, he said, such as negative ads feeding into an image of McCain, who turns 72 on August 29, as "a grumpy old man".
Another plus for Obama is that the negative campaigns encourage Democrats to donate more to his campaign, with McDonald having heard hints that he could have raised a staggering $100m in July, double his previous best.
McDonald said the swing voters would not make up their minds until closer to the election, after the party conventions and presidential debates.
Devine, who agreed, saw lots of signs for optimism buried in the polling data. These undecideds, when pressed, express a more favourable opinion of Obama than McCain and a dislike of Bush. "I predict that will be translate into a vote for Obama," Devine said, adding: "All the arrows point to him."
Backlash
A media and public backlash in the US against Barack Obama was almost inevitable given the media exposure he has enjoyed so far.
In spite of the favourable coverage he received for his trip last month to the Middle East and Europe, there has been no "bounce" for him in the polls.
Obama enjoys a lead over McCain of only about 3-4%, which is worrying Democrats.
A Pew Research poll released on Wednesday found 48% of respondents felt they had been hearing too much about Obama, compared with only 26% for McCain.
A recent analysis suggests McCain gained parity of media exposure with Obama in the last fortnight, for the first time in months.
McCain has enjoyed some success with a negative campaign portraying Obama as celebrity driven.
Two new anti-Obama books were among the bestsellers on Amazon.com's top 20 list on Tuesday.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/0...bama.johnmccain
Dukakis had a 15 point lead at this same point in time.
Ewen MacAskill in Washington The Guardian, Saturday August 9 2008 Article history
Before flying with his family for a week's holiday in Hawaii yesterday, Barack Obama expressed concern about taking a break in election year. "During the middle of a campaign you're always worried about taking some time off," he said.
He may have good reason to worry. He leaves behind a Democratic party that over the past fortnight has been showing signs for the first time of nervousness about the November 4 election.
For them, this is supposed to be the Democrats' year, an inevitable march towards the White House after the catastrophic defeats of 2000 and 2004. Almost everything seems to be going their way: unpopular president, disenchantment with the Iraq war, a faltering economy and an inspirational Democratic candidate.
What is worrying the Democrats, in spite of all these pluses, is that Obama's poll lead has remained stubbornly small. A tracking poll by RealClearPolitics published yesterday has Obama on 46.9% compared with John McCain's 43.3%.
"I think there are a lot of Democrats who are nervous," said Tad Devine, chief strategist for the Kerry White House bid in 2004. "I think they thought this election would fall into their laps."
Devine stressed that he was not among the pessimists and cautioned against what he described as "an artificial expectation that he needs to be way ahead at this time".
But the concern among Democrats is not just over the size of the poll lead but over the impact of negative ads from McCain over the last two weeks that have reawakened bitter memories of Republican tactics in 2000 and 2004.
Since the heady days of Obama's address in Berlin in front of an adoring crowd of 200,000 last month, the Democrat has been on the receiving end of ads from McCain portraying him as a celebrity-driven egotist and an elitist out of touch with the American public.
"Obama's bubble has not burst but it is leaking," said Peter Brown, assistant director at one of the country's leading pollsters, the Connecticut-based Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. He found it significant that when those surveyed were asked whether they want Democrats or Republicans to win, Democrats emerged with a double-digit lead, but when asked about Obama or McCain, Obama's lead was only in single figures.
Brown said that while the expectation is that Obama would win, "history is replete with northern liberals who end up losing".
McCain, who has struggled since the spring to win media attention, has finally achieved media parity with Obama over the last fortnight because of his negative campaign. Race has been raised as an issue, though McCain accuses Obama of bringing it up first.
But the central theme is to portray Obama - shown repeatedly against the backdrop of the Berlin crowds- as messianic, with an ad comparing him to Moses, and too fond of celebrity status, with his image placed alongside Paris Hilton and Britney Spears.
A quiz on a Republican website invites readers to guess whether quotes were from Obama, the actors Cameron Diaz and Matt Damon, David Beckham or some other celebrity. The quotes include: "Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?" The answer is Obama.
McCain, in spite of being richer than Obama and with a taste for expensive living, such as $520 Ferragamo shoes, presents himself as closer to the grittier world of working-class America. He told a rally of bikers in South Dakota this week: "Not long ago, a couple of hundred thousand Berliners made a lot of noise for my opponent. I'll take the roar of 50,000 Harleys any day."
The decision to go for the individual rather than policy is a big decision for any politician but especially for McCain, who suffered badly from negative tactics in the 2000 Republican primary contests at the hands of George Bush and his strategist, Karl Rove. The night he lost, McCain was bouncing around his hotel room in a rage, with his wife Cindy weeping, over his treatment.
Lack of impact
McCain promised to fight an honourable, positive and respectful campaign against Obama but, unable to make an impact, he put aside his resentment over what happened in 2000 and called in a Rove protege, Steve Schmidt.
In an interview with the Washington Post last week, McCain defended the change of personnel and tactics . "If I win this campaign," he said, "historians will say, 'He was a genius.'"
A media backlash against Obama was inevitable and a poll this week by the Pew research organisation suggested the public too were growing weary of the high media exposure and would like to see less of him. Two anti-Obama biographies published this week, the first such books, shot to the top of bestseller lists.
The Obama team remains outwardly calm. As they did during the fight for the Democratic nomination, even when trailing Clinton by 30%, they are quietly sticking to their game plan, filling in gaps in Obama's narrative, focusing on domestic issues and raising the millions needed to outspend the Republicans.
Professor Michael McDonald, who has built a reputation for number-crunching poll figures at Virginia's George Mason University, acknowledged the negative campaigning had energised Republicans. But there was a downside for the Republicans, he said, such as negative ads feeding into an image of McCain, who turns 72 on August 29, as "a grumpy old man".
Another plus for Obama is that the negative campaigns encourage Democrats to donate more to his campaign, with McDonald having heard hints that he could have raised a staggering $100m in July, double his previous best.
McDonald said the swing voters would not make up their minds until closer to the election, after the party conventions and presidential debates.
Devine, who agreed, saw lots of signs for optimism buried in the polling data. These undecideds, when pressed, express a more favourable opinion of Obama than McCain and a dislike of Bush. "I predict that will be translate into a vote for Obama," Devine said, adding: "All the arrows point to him."
Backlash
A media and public backlash in the US against Barack Obama was almost inevitable given the media exposure he has enjoyed so far.
In spite of the favourable coverage he received for his trip last month to the Middle East and Europe, there has been no "bounce" for him in the polls.
Obama enjoys a lead over McCain of only about 3-4%, which is worrying Democrats.
A Pew Research poll released on Wednesday found 48% of respondents felt they had been hearing too much about Obama, compared with only 26% for McCain.
A recent analysis suggests McCain gained parity of media exposure with Obama in the last fortnight, for the first time in months.
McCain has enjoyed some success with a negative campaign portraying Obama as celebrity driven.
Two new anti-Obama books were among the bestsellers on Amazon.com's top 20 list on Tuesday.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/0...bama.johnmccain
Dukakis had a 15 point lead at this same point in time.
I think the public has made up its mind on Obama. The Republican image will in the end kill McCain. Just his picture of him hugging Bush is enough for most people. That did it for me.
QUOTE(david sobien @ Aug 9 2008, 11:21 PM)
I think the public has made up its mind on Obama. The Republican image will in the end kill McCain. Just his picture of him hugging Bush is enough for most people. That did it for me.
Apparently, "most people" will not decide the race "the undecideds" will. They have not made up their individual minds, IMO.
The hug, the together-with-Wright and the Muslim-garb photos will all play...but apparently not
much with the undecideds. I posted more thoughts in the 2008 election thread under "Obama's Challenge..."
you again distort
you leave out Barr's and Nader's and other candidates who will most likely this time pick up 10% of the vote, so we are only fighting over 90
percent
of which 46-47 is OVER 50 percent of those votes
McCain is dropping fast
Obama is up by 5 again.
And McCain never breaks the lower barrier.
Like your Ronald Reagan in 1980...which is the most relevant correlation to this year now
People wanted change, weren't totally sure, then they were. (although a major difference then was Reagan commtted major crimes against humanity
and the constitution with what he illegally did, but no one knew about it).
you leave out Barr's and Nader's and other candidates who will most likely this time pick up 10% of the vote, so we are only fighting over 90
percent
of which 46-47 is OVER 50 percent of those votes
McCain is dropping fast
Obama is up by 5 again.
And McCain never breaks the lower barrier.
Like your Ronald Reagan in 1980...which is the most relevant correlation to this year now
People wanted change, weren't totally sure, then they were. (although a major difference then was Reagan commtted major crimes against humanity
and the constitution with what he illegally did, but no one knew about it).
Barr and Nader will hurt Obama equally, IMO.
I think Hillary's folks who can't vote Republican will
go for one of them...Republicans and undecideds are
less likely to, IMHO.
I don't believe Michigan, Ohio, PA or VA will split
enough on those candidates to make a difference.
If, at this point, your strategy is to win with less than 50%
...then you've got a problem, IMO. Preaching doesn't swing votes.
In addition...I'd stay away from the Reagan anologies and
keep trying your best to tie McCain to Bush. If Reagan's
the name brought up...it hurts, rather than helps Obama.
I think Hillary's folks who can't vote Republican will
go for one of them...Republicans and undecideds are
less likely to, IMHO.
I don't believe Michigan, Ohio, PA or VA will split
enough on those candidates to make a difference.
If, at this point, your strategy is to win with less than 50%
...then you've got a problem, IMO. Preaching doesn't swing votes.
In addition...I'd stay away from the Reagan anologies and
keep trying your best to tie McCain to Bush. If Reagan's
the name brought up...it hurts, rather than helps Obama.
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 9 2008, 06:55 PM)
as the pollsters state
except in races with outright thefts
those that lead in continous patterns end up winning
and a 5% popular vote win, means 425 to 450 electoral vote landslide
and a 3% popular vote win, means 300 to 400
as there is not one blue state McCain is converting, and Obama is winning 4 to 6 red states, and close in
others,
Obama can easily win this race and lose Florida and Ohio
note that add up Obama/McCain and it equals 87
put then in 5 for Barr
4 for Nader
and it only leaves 4 percent undecided
ta ta and ha ha
except in races with outright thefts
those that lead in continous patterns end up winning
and a 5% popular vote win, means 425 to 450 electoral vote landslide
and a 3% popular vote win, means 300 to 400
as there is not one blue state McCain is converting, and Obama is winning 4 to 6 red states, and close in
others,
Obama can easily win this race and lose Florida and Ohio
note that add up Obama/McCain and it equals 87
put then in 5 for Barr
4 for Nader
and it only leaves 4 percent undecided
ta ta and ha ha
If it is the case, now, that Obama could win withour Ohio and Fl., he will most likely win both
at the actual election. I predict a land slide victory...assuming the Clintons' cease their resistance
and assuming that Obama strengthens his outreach to women and older voters. He needs to
express more active empathy and respect to them directly, as persons...avoid repeating phrases
when they become over-used from the media's constant repeat of its self...
And I predict a close win by whomever is best believed to deal with the federal budget:
Obama uses Bush budget logic
Obama uses Bush budget logic
QUOTE(Indianhead @ Aug 10 2008, 09:56 AM)
Barr and Nader will hurt Obama equally, IMO.
I think Hillary's folks who can't vote Republican will
go for one of them...Republicans and undecideds are
less likely to, IMHO.
I don't believe Michigan, Ohio, PA or VA will split
enough on those candidates to make a difference.
If, at this point, your strategy is to win with less than 50%
...then you've got a problem, IMO. Preaching doesn't swing votes.
In addition...I'd stay away from the Reagan anologies and
keep trying your best to tie McCain to Bush. If Reagan's
the name brought up...it hurts, rather than helps Obama.
I think Hillary's folks who can't vote Republican will
go for one of them...Republicans and undecideds are
less likely to, IMHO.
I don't believe Michigan, Ohio, PA or VA will split
enough on those candidates to make a difference.
If, at this point, your strategy is to win with less than 50%
...then you've got a problem, IMO. Preaching doesn't swing votes.
In addition...I'd stay away from the Reagan anologies and
keep trying your best to tie McCain to Bush. If Reagan's
the name brought up...it hurts, rather than helps Obama.
Sage advice! (I like sage, just not as much as chile and garlic)
I'd go more for tying McCain to Cheney, relying on a lobbyist for Georgia doesn't give better results than being an illegal agent for Azerbaijan.
QUOTE(Indianhead @ Aug 10 2008, 10:42 AM)
And I predict a close win by whomever is best believed to deal with the federal budget:
Obama uses Bush budget logic
Obama uses Bush budget logic
Looks close now, no telling how it'll look in October. I agree budget will be among the top 3 factors, but other than Iraq not being among the top 3 it's still pretty amorphous.
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 10 2008, 01:07 PM)
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 9 2008, 06:55 PM)
as the pollsters state
except in races with outright thefts
those that lead in continous patterns end up winning
and a 5% popular vote win, means 425 to 450 electoral vote landslide
and a 3% popular vote win, means 300 to 400
as there is not one blue state McCain is converting, and Obama is winning 4 to 6 red states, and close in
others,
Obama can easily win this race and lose Florida and Ohio
note that add up Obama/McCain and it equals 87
put then in 5 for Barr
4 for Nader
and it only leaves 4 percent undecided
ta ta and ha ha
except in races with outright thefts
those that lead in continous patterns end up winning
and a 5% popular vote win, means 425 to 450 electoral vote landslide
and a 3% popular vote win, means 300 to 400
as there is not one blue state McCain is converting, and Obama is winning 4 to 6 red states, and close in
others,
Obama can easily win this race and lose Florida and Ohio
note that add up Obama/McCain and it equals 87
put then in 5 for Barr
4 for Nader
and it only leaves 4 percent undecided
ta ta and ha ha
If it is the case, now, that Obama could win withour Ohio and Fl., he will most likely win both
at the actual election. I predict a land slide victory...assuming the Clintons' cease their resistance
and assuming that Obama strengthens his outreach to women and older voters. He needs to
express more active empathy and respect to them directly, as persons...avoid repeating phrases
when they become over-used from the media's constant repeat of its self...
yup
I think it will be over 425 electoral votes
Obama could even win Texas
Obama will defnitely win all Kerry and Gore's blue states plus at least 5 more. It's in the bag.
(unless its stolen, in which case no one can do anything about that)
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 10 2008, 01:04 PM)
yup
I think it will be over 425 electoral votes
Obama could even win Texas
Obama will defnitely win all Kerry and Gore's blue states plus at least 5 more. It's in the bag.
(unless its stolen, in which case no one can do anything about that)
I think it will be over 425 electoral votes
Obama could even win Texas
Obama will defnitely win all Kerry and Gore's blue states plus at least 5 more. It's in the bag.
(unless its stolen, in which case no one can do anything about that)
"In the bag" (with the caveat that - if he loses - it was stolen)
Well, I guess that covers all the bases.
McCain’s attacks on rival fall flat with vets group
Republican offers plan to let some get care outside VA
By J. Patrick Coolican, Michael Mishak
Sun, Aug 10, 2008 (2 a.m.)
Sen. John McCain, speaking to disabled veterans Saturday in Las Vegas, attacked his Democratic opponent, Sen. Barack Obama, for his foreign policy record, while also proposing a program that would allow veterans to acquire health care at private hospitals and not just through the Veterans Affairs Department.
The veterans, at Bally’s for their national convention, gave him a tepid reception, especially considering McCain’s life story. The Arizona senator was a Navy pilot shot down over Vietnam, tortured and held as a prisoner of war for 5 1/2 years.
Just one of 14 veterans interviewed by the Sun after his speech said he is a certain McCain voter, and the nonpartisan group’s legislative director expressed concerns about McCain’s proposed “Veterans’ Care Access Card.”
But as with most presidential campaign events, the intended audience was not the veterans in the hall but television viewers. McCain used the opportunity to hammer Obama on his opposition to the 2007 surge of U.S. troops in Iraq.
McCain said Obama “can’t quite bring himself to admit his own failure in judgment. Instead, he commits the greater error of insisting that even in hindsight, he would oppose the surge. Even in retrospect, he would choose the path of retreat and failure for America over the path of success and victory.
“Behind all of these claims and positions by Senator Obama lies the ambition to be president,” McCain said. “What’s missing is the judgment to be commander in chief.”
McCain said Obama had tried to “legislate failure” in Iraq.
Obama has said that he showed good judgment by opposing the war in the first place. The Iraqi government recently endorsed Obama’s proposal to withdraw troops.
In setting forth an agenda for veterans, McCain said he would make sure Congress approves the VA health care budget on schedule. “But I will say that every increase in funding must be matched by increases in accountability, both at the VA and in Congress.”
Legislation appropriating money for veterans is often tardy, bogged down in the legislative process and loaded with extra spending on unrelated matters.
McCain said he would veto veterans legislation that contains unrelated pork barrel spending. The money saved could be used for veterans benefits, he said.
To help veterans who live far from VA hospitals or need specialized care the VA can’t provide, McCain proposed giving low-income veterans and those who incurred injury during their service a card they could use at private hospitals. The proposal is not an attempt to privatize the VA, as critics have alleged, but rather, an effort to improve care and access to it, he said.
Joe Violanti, legislative director of the Disabled American Veterans, a nonpartisan organization, said the proposal would increase costs because private hospitals are more expensive. The increased cost could lead to further rationing of care, he said.
McCain closed with stirring words: “I have had the good fortune to know personally a great many brave and selfless patriots who sacrificed and shed blood to defend America. But I have known none braver or better than those who do so today. They are our inspiration, as I suspect all of you were once theirs. And I pray to a loving God that he bless and protect them.”
John Von Schlicher, 87, of Florida, said he will support McCain. Schlicher sharply criticized the Democratic-controlled Congress for not funding VA hospitals. (Spending on veterans benefits will increase 11 percent this year.)
Other veterans, such as James Jewett and Jay Johnson of Texas, expressed misgivings about McCain using the occasion to attack his opponent so fiercely.
Duke Hendershot, a double amputee retired Marine who served in Vietnam, supported McCain’s run for president in 2000 but is undecided this year.
“John just isn’t the same as he used to be. He’s not his own man,” said Hendershot, who lives in San Antonio, Texas. “A lot of that has to do with how he’s wanted this job so bad for so long that he’s tied himself to President Bush.”
He said McCain’s embrace of Bush, whom Hendershot called a “draft-dodging coward,” is even more perplexing because of the rivalry between the two candidates during the 2000 campaign.
Hendershot also criticized McCain for taking swipes at Obama in his speech. “He should have been talking about veterans issues, not his opponent,” he said.
By contrast, he praised Obama for keeping his remarks tightly focused on veterans. The Democrat gave taped remarks via video.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/aug/1...lat-vets-group/
Republican offers plan to let some get care outside VA
By J. Patrick Coolican, Michael Mishak
Sun, Aug 10, 2008 (2 a.m.)
Sen. John McCain, speaking to disabled veterans Saturday in Las Vegas, attacked his Democratic opponent, Sen. Barack Obama, for his foreign policy record, while also proposing a program that would allow veterans to acquire health care at private hospitals and not just through the Veterans Affairs Department.
The veterans, at Bally’s for their national convention, gave him a tepid reception, especially considering McCain’s life story. The Arizona senator was a Navy pilot shot down over Vietnam, tortured and held as a prisoner of war for 5 1/2 years.
Just one of 14 veterans interviewed by the Sun after his speech said he is a certain McCain voter, and the nonpartisan group’s legislative director expressed concerns about McCain’s proposed “Veterans’ Care Access Card.”
But as with most presidential campaign events, the intended audience was not the veterans in the hall but television viewers. McCain used the opportunity to hammer Obama on his opposition to the 2007 surge of U.S. troops in Iraq.
McCain said Obama “can’t quite bring himself to admit his own failure in judgment. Instead, he commits the greater error of insisting that even in hindsight, he would oppose the surge. Even in retrospect, he would choose the path of retreat and failure for America over the path of success and victory.
“Behind all of these claims and positions by Senator Obama lies the ambition to be president,” McCain said. “What’s missing is the judgment to be commander in chief.”
McCain said Obama had tried to “legislate failure” in Iraq.
Obama has said that he showed good judgment by opposing the war in the first place. The Iraqi government recently endorsed Obama’s proposal to withdraw troops.
In setting forth an agenda for veterans, McCain said he would make sure Congress approves the VA health care budget on schedule. “But I will say that every increase in funding must be matched by increases in accountability, both at the VA and in Congress.”
Legislation appropriating money for veterans is often tardy, bogged down in the legislative process and loaded with extra spending on unrelated matters.
McCain said he would veto veterans legislation that contains unrelated pork barrel spending. The money saved could be used for veterans benefits, he said.
To help veterans who live far from VA hospitals or need specialized care the VA can’t provide, McCain proposed giving low-income veterans and those who incurred injury during their service a card they could use at private hospitals. The proposal is not an attempt to privatize the VA, as critics have alleged, but rather, an effort to improve care and access to it, he said.
Joe Violanti, legislative director of the Disabled American Veterans, a nonpartisan organization, said the proposal would increase costs because private hospitals are more expensive. The increased cost could lead to further rationing of care, he said.
McCain closed with stirring words: “I have had the good fortune to know personally a great many brave and selfless patriots who sacrificed and shed blood to defend America. But I have known none braver or better than those who do so today. They are our inspiration, as I suspect all of you were once theirs. And I pray to a loving God that he bless and protect them.”
John Von Schlicher, 87, of Florida, said he will support McCain. Schlicher sharply criticized the Democratic-controlled Congress for not funding VA hospitals. (Spending on veterans benefits will increase 11 percent this year.)
Other veterans, such as James Jewett and Jay Johnson of Texas, expressed misgivings about McCain using the occasion to attack his opponent so fiercely.
Duke Hendershot, a double amputee retired Marine who served in Vietnam, supported McCain’s run for president in 2000 but is undecided this year.
“John just isn’t the same as he used to be. He’s not his own man,” said Hendershot, who lives in San Antonio, Texas. “A lot of that has to do with how he’s wanted this job so bad for so long that he’s tied himself to President Bush.”
He said McCain’s embrace of Bush, whom Hendershot called a “draft-dodging coward,” is even more perplexing because of the rivalry between the two candidates during the 2000 campaign.
Hendershot also criticized McCain for taking swipes at Obama in his speech. “He should have been talking about veterans issues, not his opponent,” he said.
By contrast, he praised Obama for keeping his remarks tightly focused on veterans. The Democrat gave taped remarks via video.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/aug/1...lat-vets-group/
QUOTE(Indianhead @ Aug 10 2008, 02:37 PM)
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 10 2008, 01:04 PM)
yup
I think it will be over 425 electoral votes
Obama could even win Texas
Obama will defnitely win all Kerry and Gore's blue states plus at least 5 more. It's in the bag.
(unless its stolen, in which case no one can do anything about that)
I think it will be over 425 electoral votes
Obama could even win Texas
Obama will defnitely win all Kerry and Gore's blue states plus at least 5 more. It's in the bag.
(unless its stolen, in which case no one can do anything about that)
"In the bag" (with the caveat that - if he loses - it was stolen)
Well, I guess that covers all the bases.
it was in 2000 and 2004
and max had it stolen in 2002
at which point Jesus would lose too if they stole it from him
McCain=Dole
two cranky, whiney, old men hired to take a dive
so next time they will put who they really want up
You had the propaganda,nowthe news.
Speaking to Disabled Vets, McCain Criticizes Obama on Iraq
by Ryan Corsaro
(CBS)From CBS News' Ryan Corsaro
(LAS VEGAS) - John McCain told veterans today that Barack Obama stubbornly refuses to agree that the troop surge in Iraq has worked and took legislative steps to divert funding for the effort in order to prevent progress in the Iraq war.
Speaking at the Disabled American Veterans conference in Las Vegas, McCain said Obama “tried to legislate failure,” adding that “I would rather lose an election than lose a war.”
“Thanks to the courage and sacrifice of our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines and to brave Iraqi fighters the surge has succeeded,” said McCain.
“And yet Senator Obama still can't quite bring himself to admit his own failure in judgment. Instead, he commits the greater error of insisting that even in hindsight, he would oppose the surge.”
Obama told CBS News last month that he acknowledges the lessening of violence since the surge began, but added “it does not solve the broader strategic question that we have been dealing with over the last five, six, seven years.”
McCain also spoke out against “hasty withdrawal and arbitrary timelines” that he accuses Obama of wanting to set, although McCain told the Des Moines Register yesterday that he thought an agreement between Iraq and the U.S. for a pullout of all troops by 2010 would be permissible if the U.S. was “winning” at the time.
Aside from attacks on his opponent, who is vacationing this week in Hawaii, McCain focused his speech on care for veterans and promised to create an access card that would help those coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan to get faster access to care and better assist the rising number of female veterans.
He also promised that as president he would veto any veterans bill Congress sent to his desk that had pork-barrel spending projects included in the legislation. To the thousands of veterans that attended the conference, McCain promised that he would work to increase death gratuity payments and benefits to the families of those killed in the line of duty.
Tomorrow, McCain travels to Pennsylvania for a closed dinner at a private residence.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/08/09/po...ry4335683.shtml
Speaking to Disabled Vets, McCain Criticizes Obama on Iraq
by Ryan Corsaro
(CBS)From CBS News' Ryan Corsaro
(LAS VEGAS) - John McCain told veterans today that Barack Obama stubbornly refuses to agree that the troop surge in Iraq has worked and took legislative steps to divert funding for the effort in order to prevent progress in the Iraq war.
Speaking at the Disabled American Veterans conference in Las Vegas, McCain said Obama “tried to legislate failure,” adding that “I would rather lose an election than lose a war.”
“Thanks to the courage and sacrifice of our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines and to brave Iraqi fighters the surge has succeeded,” said McCain.
“And yet Senator Obama still can't quite bring himself to admit his own failure in judgment. Instead, he commits the greater error of insisting that even in hindsight, he would oppose the surge.”
Obama told CBS News last month that he acknowledges the lessening of violence since the surge began, but added “it does not solve the broader strategic question that we have been dealing with over the last five, six, seven years.”
McCain also spoke out against “hasty withdrawal and arbitrary timelines” that he accuses Obama of wanting to set, although McCain told the Des Moines Register yesterday that he thought an agreement between Iraq and the U.S. for a pullout of all troops by 2010 would be permissible if the U.S. was “winning” at the time.
Aside from attacks on his opponent, who is vacationing this week in Hawaii, McCain focused his speech on care for veterans and promised to create an access card that would help those coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan to get faster access to care and better assist the rising number of female veterans.
He also promised that as president he would veto any veterans bill Congress sent to his desk that had pork-barrel spending projects included in the legislation. To the thousands of veterans that attended the conference, McCain promised that he would work to increase death gratuity payments and benefits to the families of those killed in the line of duty.
Tomorrow, McCain travels to Pennsylvania for a closed dinner at a private residence.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/08/09/po...ry4335683.shtml
I do not know much nationally. But I know PA. Obama wins PA by 7 or 8 points. He wins it by huge margins in the Phille area over comming the rest of the state. Obama is only running even in Allegheny county. That would be a problem with most Democratic candidates.
QUOTE(Marine @ Aug 10 2008, 06:27 PM)
You had the propaganda,nowthe news.
Speaking to Disabled Vets, McCain Criticizes Obama on Iraq
by Ryan Corsaro
(CBS)From CBS News' Ryan Corsaro
(LAS VEGAS) - John McCain told veterans today that Barack Obama stubbornly refuses to agree that the troop surge in Iraq has worked and took legislative steps to divert funding for the effort in order to prevent progress in the Iraq war.
Speaking at the Disabled American Veterans conference in Las Vegas, McCain said Obama “tried to legislate failure,” adding that “I would rather lose an election than lose a war.”
“Thanks to the courage and sacrifice of our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines and to brave Iraqi fighters the surge has succeeded,” said McCain.
“And yet Senator Obama still can't quite bring himself to admit his own failure in judgment. Instead, he commits the greater error of insisting that even in hindsight, he would oppose the surge.”
Obama told CBS News last month that he acknowledges the lessening of violence since the surge began, but added “it does not solve the broader strategic question that we have been dealing with over the last five, six, seven years.”
McCain also spoke out against “hasty withdrawal and arbitrary timelines” that he accuses Obama of wanting to set, although McCain told the Des Moines Register yesterday that he thought an agreement between Iraq and the U.S. for a pullout of all troops by 2010 would be permissible if the U.S. was “winning” at the time.
Aside from attacks on his opponent, who is vacationing this week in Hawaii, McCain focused his speech on care for veterans and promised to create an access card that would help those coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan to get faster access to care and better assist the rising number of female veterans.
He also promised that as president he would veto any veterans bill Congress sent to his desk that had pork-barrel spending projects included in the legislation. To the thousands of veterans that attended the conference, McCain promised that he would work to increase death gratuity payments and benefits to the families of those killed in the line of duty.
Tomorrow, McCain travels to Pennsylvania for a closed dinner at a private residence.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/08/09/po...ry4335683.shtml
Speaking to Disabled Vets, McCain Criticizes Obama on Iraq
by Ryan Corsaro
(CBS)From CBS News' Ryan Corsaro
(LAS VEGAS) - John McCain told veterans today that Barack Obama stubbornly refuses to agree that the troop surge in Iraq has worked and took legislative steps to divert funding for the effort in order to prevent progress in the Iraq war.
Speaking at the Disabled American Veterans conference in Las Vegas, McCain said Obama “tried to legislate failure,” adding that “I would rather lose an election than lose a war.”
“Thanks to the courage and sacrifice of our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines and to brave Iraqi fighters the surge has succeeded,” said McCain.
“And yet Senator Obama still can't quite bring himself to admit his own failure in judgment. Instead, he commits the greater error of insisting that even in hindsight, he would oppose the surge.”
Obama told CBS News last month that he acknowledges the lessening of violence since the surge began, but added “it does not solve the broader strategic question that we have been dealing with over the last five, six, seven years.”
McCain also spoke out against “hasty withdrawal and arbitrary timelines” that he accuses Obama of wanting to set, although McCain told the Des Moines Register yesterday that he thought an agreement between Iraq and the U.S. for a pullout of all troops by 2010 would be permissible if the U.S. was “winning” at the time.
Aside from attacks on his opponent, who is vacationing this week in Hawaii, McCain focused his speech on care for veterans and promised to create an access card that would help those coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan to get faster access to care and better assist the rising number of female veterans.
He also promised that as president he would veto any veterans bill Congress sent to his desk that had pork-barrel spending projects included in the legislation. To the thousands of veterans that attended the conference, McCain promised that he would work to increase death gratuity payments and benefits to the families of those killed in the line of duty.
Tomorrow, McCain travels to Pennsylvania for a closed dinner at a private residence.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/08/09/po...ry4335683.shtml
Yep,what would the Las Vegas Sun know about what goes on in Las Vegas. Far better to depend on CBS blogs. Bet those guys in Las Vegas are all Democrats.
QUOTE(ConcernedObserver @ Aug 10 2008, 06:35 PM)
QUOTE(Marine @ Aug 10 2008, 06:27 PM)
You had the propaganda,nowthe news.
Speaking to Disabled Vets, McCain Criticizes Obama on Iraq
by Ryan Corsaro
(CBS)From CBS News' Ryan Corsaro
(LAS VEGAS) - John McCain told veterans today that Barack Obama stubbornly refuses to agree that the troop surge in Iraq has worked and took legislative steps to divert funding for the effort in order to prevent progress in the Iraq war.
Speaking at the Disabled American Veterans conference in Las Vegas, McCain said Obama “tried to legislate failure,” adding that “I would rather lose an election than lose a war.”
“Thanks to the courage and sacrifice of our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines and to brave Iraqi fighters the surge has succeeded,” said McCain.
“And yet Senator Obama still can't quite bring himself to admit his own failure in judgment. Instead, he commits the greater error of insisting that even in hindsight, he would oppose the surge.”
Obama told CBS News last month that he acknowledges the lessening of violence since the surge began, but added “it does not solve the broader strategic question that we have been dealing with over the last five, six, seven years.”
McCain also spoke out against “hasty withdrawal and arbitrary timelines” that he accuses Obama of wanting to set, although McCain told the Des Moines Register yesterday that he thought an agreement between Iraq and the U.S. for a pullout of all troops by 2010 would be permissible if the U.S. was “winning” at the time.
Aside from attacks on his opponent, who is vacationing this week in Hawaii, McCain focused his speech on care for veterans and promised to create an access card that would help those coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan to get faster access to care and better assist the rising number of female veterans.
He also promised that as president he would veto any veterans bill Congress sent to his desk that had pork-barrel spending projects included in the legislation. To the thousands of veterans that attended the conference, McCain promised that he would work to increase death gratuity payments and benefits to the families of those killed in the line of duty.
Tomorrow, McCain travels to Pennsylvania for a closed dinner at a private residence.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/08/09/po...ry4335683.shtml
Speaking to Disabled Vets, McCain Criticizes Obama on Iraq
by Ryan Corsaro
(CBS)From CBS News' Ryan Corsaro
(LAS VEGAS) - John McCain told veterans today that Barack Obama stubbornly refuses to agree that the troop surge in Iraq has worked and took legislative steps to divert funding for the effort in order to prevent progress in the Iraq war.
Speaking at the Disabled American Veterans conference in Las Vegas, McCain said Obama “tried to legislate failure,” adding that “I would rather lose an election than lose a war.”
“Thanks to the courage and sacrifice of our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines and to brave Iraqi fighters the surge has succeeded,” said McCain.
“And yet Senator Obama still can't quite bring himself to admit his own failure in judgment. Instead, he commits the greater error of insisting that even in hindsight, he would oppose the surge.”
Obama told CBS News last month that he acknowledges the lessening of violence since the surge began, but added “it does not solve the broader strategic question that we have been dealing with over the last five, six, seven years.”
McCain also spoke out against “hasty withdrawal and arbitrary timelines” that he accuses Obama of wanting to set, although McCain told the Des Moines Register yesterday that he thought an agreement between Iraq and the U.S. for a pullout of all troops by 2010 would be permissible if the U.S. was “winning” at the time.
Aside from attacks on his opponent, who is vacationing this week in Hawaii, McCain focused his speech on care for veterans and promised to create an access card that would help those coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan to get faster access to care and better assist the rising number of female veterans.
He also promised that as president he would veto any veterans bill Congress sent to his desk that had pork-barrel spending projects included in the legislation. To the thousands of veterans that attended the conference, McCain promised that he would work to increase death gratuity payments and benefits to the families of those killed in the line of duty.
Tomorrow, McCain travels to Pennsylvania for a closed dinner at a private residence.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/08/09/po...ry4335683.shtml
Yep,what would the Las Vegas Sun know about what goes on in Las Vegas. Far better to depend on CBS blogs. Bet those guys in Las Vegas are all Democrats.
And judging from most of the other articles he written he's both a Bush basher and an Obama supporter.
As I'm sure you all know - the Las Vegas Sun is our Dem/Liberal newspaper and the Review Journal is our Conservative newspaper. Quite different stories from each of them. 
Why am I not surprised. I didn't go to see McCain, but a friend did and I haven't talked to them yet. I did go to the Hillary for Obama gathering in BCity the other day, which was extremely interesting..
So .. our Las Vegas Conservative Newspapers view on the McCain visit..
Aug. 10, 2008
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal
DISABLED AMERICAN VETERANS: McCain appeals to veterans
GOP presidential hopeful criticizes Obama for opposing Iraq troop surge
By MOLLY BALL
REVIEW-JOURNAL
Addressing a national veterans' convention in Las Vegas on Saturday, Republican presidential candidate John McCain criticized his Democratic opponent, Barack Obama, for not supporting last year's temporary buildup in troop levels in Iraq.
"The lasting advantage of a peaceful and democratic ally in the heart of the Middle East could still be squandered by hasty withdrawal and arbitrary timelines," McCain told about 3,500 fellow members of the Disabled American Veterans at Bally's Las Vegas. "This is one of many problems in the shifting positions of my opponent, Senator Obama."
Obama, who has advocated setting deadlines for bringing home American troops, opposed the so-called troop surge when it was proposed, predicting that it would not have the desired effect of quelling violence in Iraq. McCain supported it despite its unpopularity at the time.
"It was a clarifying moment," said McCain, a Navy veteran and former prisoner of war. "It was a moment when political self-interest and the national interest parted ways."
The troop increase has been credited with reduced levels of bloodshed, but Obama has since said a combination of factors, not just the surge, were responsible.
"Senator Obama still can't quite bring himself to admit his own failure in judgment," McCain charged, adding that the episode showed Obama lacked "the judgment to be commander in chief."
McCain devoted the bulk of his speech at the disabled veterans' annual convention to outlining proposals for reforming veterans' health care. Though McCain said he wouldn't be signing the group's "Stand Up for Veterans" pledge, he said, "I give you my word that as president I will see that these obligations are kept."
The scandal that revealed shocking lapses in outpatient care at Washington, D.C.'s Walter Reed Army Medical Center was "a disgrace unworthy of this nation," McCain said. "Americans who fought to defend this nation should always rank among the highest of national priorities."
McCain said he would "make sure that Congress funds the VA health care budget in a sufficient, timely and predictable manner." Those are buzzwords for the veterans, who blame problems with VA funding and services on the fact that its budget comes from discretionary rather than mandatory federal funds. As a result, the agency's funding is often late and subjected to political pressures.
McCain said that although he supported adequate VA funding, it must not be burdened by wasteful earmarks.
He also called for creation of a "Veterans' Care Access Card," which he said would allow vets to get health care outside VA facilities if time, distance or availability of specialists made it difficult to access the VA system. The idea of such a card is opposed by the veterans group, which does not want veterans' care in the hands of private companies.
"This card is not intended to either replace the VA or privatize veterans' health care, as some have wrongly charged," McCain said in his speech. "I believe the VA should always be there to provide top-quality care for our veterans."
McCain further advocated reforming the system to improve treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury, and to increase services available to growing numbers of female veterans.
A Democratic disabled veteran who responded to McCain's speech on behalf of Obama's campaign criticized McCain for his support of the health care card idea, saying vets want to be treated by the VA, with their "buddies," and what's needed is VA expansion rather than alternatives.
Tammy Duckworth, an Illinois former congressional candidate who lost both legs in Iraq, also criticized McCain for not supporting the "New G.I. Bill," an expansion of veterans' education benefits that became law earlier this year. Obama supported the legislation, while McCain, who had opposed it, was not present for the vote in the Senate.
"When the time came to cast a vote on the most important piece of legislation to improve benefits for veterans, Senator Obama was there for us," Duckworth said. "Senator McCain did not show up."
Duckworth, now director of the Illinois Department of Veterans Affairs, was honored as the Disabled Veteran of the Year at the convention.
Obama, vacationing with his family in Hawaii, addressed the convention Saturday morning in a videotaped speech.
McCain has gotten low marks from the disabled veterans group in the past, earning the lowest grade in the Senate in the group's 2006 rankings, a 20 percent score.
The grade was largely because of McCain's votes against bills that included VA funding because of his opposition to wasteful spending. Obama got an 80 percent score.
Joe Violante, the organization's legislative director, said it has good working relationships with both presidential candidates in the Senate.
"He is a fiscal conservative," he said of McCain. "The biggest problems we've had with him have been issues about increased funding for the VA."
Contact reporter Molly Ball at mball@reviewjournal.com or 702-387-2919.
http://www.lvrj.com/news/26582304.html
Why am I not surprised. I didn't go to see McCain, but a friend did and I haven't talked to them yet. I did go to the Hillary for Obama gathering in BCity the other day, which was extremely interesting..So .. our Las Vegas Conservative Newspapers view on the McCain visit..
Aug. 10, 2008
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal
DISABLED AMERICAN VETERANS: McCain appeals to veterans
GOP presidential hopeful criticizes Obama for opposing Iraq troop surge
By MOLLY BALL
REVIEW-JOURNAL
Addressing a national veterans' convention in Las Vegas on Saturday, Republican presidential candidate John McCain criticized his Democratic opponent, Barack Obama, for not supporting last year's temporary buildup in troop levels in Iraq.
"The lasting advantage of a peaceful and democratic ally in the heart of the Middle East could still be squandered by hasty withdrawal and arbitrary timelines," McCain told about 3,500 fellow members of the Disabled American Veterans at Bally's Las Vegas. "This is one of many problems in the shifting positions of my opponent, Senator Obama."
Obama, who has advocated setting deadlines for bringing home American troops, opposed the so-called troop surge when it was proposed, predicting that it would not have the desired effect of quelling violence in Iraq. McCain supported it despite its unpopularity at the time.
"It was a clarifying moment," said McCain, a Navy veteran and former prisoner of war. "It was a moment when political self-interest and the national interest parted ways."
The troop increase has been credited with reduced levels of bloodshed, but Obama has since said a combination of factors, not just the surge, were responsible.
"Senator Obama still can't quite bring himself to admit his own failure in judgment," McCain charged, adding that the episode showed Obama lacked "the judgment to be commander in chief."
McCain devoted the bulk of his speech at the disabled veterans' annual convention to outlining proposals for reforming veterans' health care. Though McCain said he wouldn't be signing the group's "Stand Up for Veterans" pledge, he said, "I give you my word that as president I will see that these obligations are kept."
The scandal that revealed shocking lapses in outpatient care at Washington, D.C.'s Walter Reed Army Medical Center was "a disgrace unworthy of this nation," McCain said. "Americans who fought to defend this nation should always rank among the highest of national priorities."
McCain said he would "make sure that Congress funds the VA health care budget in a sufficient, timely and predictable manner." Those are buzzwords for the veterans, who blame problems with VA funding and services on the fact that its budget comes from discretionary rather than mandatory federal funds. As a result, the agency's funding is often late and subjected to political pressures.
McCain said that although he supported adequate VA funding, it must not be burdened by wasteful earmarks.
He also called for creation of a "Veterans' Care Access Card," which he said would allow vets to get health care outside VA facilities if time, distance or availability of specialists made it difficult to access the VA system. The idea of such a card is opposed by the veterans group, which does not want veterans' care in the hands of private companies.
"This card is not intended to either replace the VA or privatize veterans' health care, as some have wrongly charged," McCain said in his speech. "I believe the VA should always be there to provide top-quality care for our veterans."
McCain further advocated reforming the system to improve treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury, and to increase services available to growing numbers of female veterans.
A Democratic disabled veteran who responded to McCain's speech on behalf of Obama's campaign criticized McCain for his support of the health care card idea, saying vets want to be treated by the VA, with their "buddies," and what's needed is VA expansion rather than alternatives.
Tammy Duckworth, an Illinois former congressional candidate who lost both legs in Iraq, also criticized McCain for not supporting the "New G.I. Bill," an expansion of veterans' education benefits that became law earlier this year. Obama supported the legislation, while McCain, who had opposed it, was not present for the vote in the Senate.
"When the time came to cast a vote on the most important piece of legislation to improve benefits for veterans, Senator Obama was there for us," Duckworth said. "Senator McCain did not show up."
Duckworth, now director of the Illinois Department of Veterans Affairs, was honored as the Disabled Veteran of the Year at the convention.
Obama, vacationing with his family in Hawaii, addressed the convention Saturday morning in a videotaped speech.
McCain has gotten low marks from the disabled veterans group in the past, earning the lowest grade in the Senate in the group's 2006 rankings, a 20 percent score.
The grade was largely because of McCain's votes against bills that included VA funding because of his opposition to wasteful spending. Obama got an 80 percent score.
Joe Violante, the organization's legislative director, said it has good working relationships with both presidential candidates in the Senate.
"He is a fiscal conservative," he said of McCain. "The biggest problems we've had with him have been issues about increased funding for the VA."
Contact reporter Molly Ball at mball@reviewjournal.com or 702-387-2919.
http://www.lvrj.com/news/26582304.html
I think everyone will find that vets do not like McCain because of his treatment of MIA issues and funding issues for vets. I am a vet and I do not like him because he is a Bush hugger. To each his own.
Considerable variance of opinion among the veterans.
of course, the vets do not comprise that much of a voting bloc, and about 95% of the vets have already decided, so they are not among the only 4% undecideds left
Once again, though, this has been distorted by certain posters
Because if Obama/McCain get 89% combined, it does not take into account
that of the remaining 11%, a good 6-8% is voting for Bob Barr and Ralph Nader and the other 3rd party
leaving only a mere less than 4% of actual undecideds.
But the networks, mainstream media drive by media Fox don't let you know that.Don't recall the last time
Mr.Barr was mentioned (as they know every single Bob Barr vote is one less McCain vote).
Once again, though, this has been distorted by certain posters
Because if Obama/McCain get 89% combined, it does not take into account
that of the remaining 11%, a good 6-8% is voting for Bob Barr and Ralph Nader and the other 3rd party
leaving only a mere less than 4% of actual undecideds.
But the networks, mainstream media drive by media Fox don't let you know that.Don't recall the last time
Mr.Barr was mentioned (as they know every single Bob Barr vote is one less McCain vote).
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 11 2008, 03:24 AM)
But the networks, mainstream media drive by media Fox don't let you know that.Don't recall the last time
Mr.Barr was mentioned (as they know every single Bob Barr vote is one less McCain vote).
Mr.Barr was mentioned (as they know every single Bob Barr vote is one less McCain vote).
Not every single one.
I am going to request that the title be changed, being that it is irrelevant
Maybe someone could change it to
Obama/McCain Poll Results
Because anyone reading this knowing that Obama leads by 5 would snicker at how this title distorts the race. Maybe the day it was written there was one poll, but it just is an outright
misnamer.
That this one is the one that keeps popping back, when there have been 12 other threads since this long one started, must mean someones want this titled to be there...
so I am going to request SNUFFY if you can, please change the title to OBAMA/MCCAIN POLL RESULTS.
Thank you very much.
Maybe someone could change it to
Obama/McCain Poll Results
Because anyone reading this knowing that Obama leads by 5 would snicker at how this title distorts the race. Maybe the day it was written there was one poll, but it just is an outright
misnamer.
That this one is the one that keeps popping back, when there have been 12 other threads since this long one started, must mean someones want this titled to be there...
so I am going to request SNUFFY if you can, please change the title to OBAMA/MCCAIN POLL RESULTS.
Thank you very much.
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 11 2008, 01:42 AM)
I am going to request that the title be changed, being that it is irrelevant
Maybe someone could change it to
Obama/McCain Poll Results
Because anyone reading this knowing that Obama leads by 5 would snicker at how this title distorts the race. Maybe the day it was written there was one poll, but it just is an outright
misnamer.
That this one is the one that keeps popping back, when there have been 12 other threads since this long one started, must mean someones want this titled to be there...
so I am going to request SNUFFY if you can, please change the title to OBAMA/MCCAIN POLL RESULTS.
Thank you very much.
Maybe someone could change it to
Obama/McCain Poll Results
Because anyone reading this knowing that Obama leads by 5 would snicker at how this title distorts the race. Maybe the day it was written there was one poll, but it just is an outright
misnamer.
That this one is the one that keeps popping back, when there have been 12 other threads since this long one started, must mean someones want this titled to be there...
so I am going to request SNUFFY if you can, please change the title to OBAMA/MCCAIN POLL RESULTS.
Thank you very much.
This thread started with an article that stated exactly what the topic of the article was. If you want another thread why not start one - you aren't shy about posting to your own posts, that should get it started.
QUOTE(Terra @ Aug 11 2008, 09:44 AM)
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 11 2008, 01:42 AM)
I am going to request that the title be changed, being that it is irrelevant
Maybe someone could change it to
Obama/McCain Poll Results
Because anyone reading this knowing that Obama leads by 5 would snicker at how this title distorts the race. Maybe the day it was written there was one poll, but it just is an outright
misnamer.
That this one is the one that keeps popping back, when there have been 12 other threads since this long one started, must mean someones want this titled to be there...
so I am going to request SNUFFY if you can, please change the title to OBAMA/MCCAIN POLL RESULTS.
Thank you very much.
Maybe someone could change it to
Obama/McCain Poll Results
Because anyone reading this knowing that Obama leads by 5 would snicker at how this title distorts the race. Maybe the day it was written there was one poll, but it just is an outright
misnamer.
That this one is the one that keeps popping back, when there have been 12 other threads since this long one started, must mean someones want this titled to be there...
so I am going to request SNUFFY if you can, please change the title to OBAMA/MCCAIN POLL RESULTS.
Thank you very much.
This thread started with an article that stated exactly what the topic of the article was. If you want another thread why not start one - you aren't shy about posting to your own posts, that should get it started.
there have, but on purpose the OP has contnued the old thread, not the newer ones
Besides, there is plenty of precidence here on this board for title changes
We had one wrongly titled about Socialism, that was changed
I will ask snuffy about it.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/20..._obama-225.html
General Election: McCain vs. Obama
Polling Data
Poll Date Sample Obama (D) McCain ® Spread
Rasmussen Tracking 08/15 - 08/17 3000 LV 47 46 Obama +1
Gallup Tracking 08/14 - 08/16 2671 RV 45 45 Tie
General Election: McCain vs. Obama
Polling Data
Poll Date Sample Obama (D) McCain ® Spread
Rasmussen Tracking 08/15 - 08/17 3000 LV 47 46 Obama +1
Gallup Tracking 08/14 - 08/16 2671 RV 45 45 Tie
Old, well-know, war hero fart... vs young, relatively unknown bi-racial/black guy.
Statistical tie.
Well... it shouldn't even be close. If America didn't still have a big element of closet racism McCain would be in the gutter.
Must be nice to know that, if you do win, it is because America is still racist and not because they want you to do the job.
Statistical tie.
Well... it shouldn't even be close. If America didn't still have a big element of closet racism McCain would be in the gutter.
Must be nice to know that, if you do win, it is because America is still racist and not because they want you to do the job.
Interesting.
Well, McCain is getting a bit more popular lately. At the moment, it really is a 50-50 the way things look.
Most are already stuck at who they would vote for.
The youth vote definitely needs to vote this time around else McCain seems to really have the lead if we go by percentage rates of how often the youth vote does actuall cast their ballots in comparison to the other groups.
Either could win at this time it seems. I've always considered McCain able to sneak up from behind.
Well, McCain is getting a bit more popular lately. At the moment, it really is a 50-50 the way things look.
Most are already stuck at who they would vote for.
The youth vote definitely needs to vote this time around else McCain seems to really have the lead if we go by percentage rates of how often the youth vote does actuall cast their ballots in comparison to the other groups.
Either could win at this time it seems. I've always considered McCain able to sneak up from behind.
QUOTE(xyzse @ Aug 18 2008, 12:02 PM)
Interesting.
Well, McCain is getting a bit more popular lately. At the moment, it really is a 50-50 the way things look.
Most are already stuck at who they would vote for.
The youth vote definitely needs to vote this time around else McCain seems to really have the lead if we go by percentage rates of how often the youth vote does actuall cast their ballots in comparison to the other groups.
Either could win at this time it seems. I've always considered McCain able to sneak up from behind.
Well, McCain is getting a bit more popular lately. At the moment, it really is a 50-50 the way things look.
Most are already stuck at who they would vote for.
The youth vote definitely needs to vote this time around else McCain seems to really have the lead if we go by percentage rates of how often the youth vote does actuall cast their ballots in comparison to the other groups.
Either could win at this time it seems. I've always considered McCain able to sneak up from behind.
And last night showed just how sneaky.
QUOTE(NiteOwl @ Aug 18 2008, 12:00 PM)
Old, well-know, war hero fart... vs young, relatively unknown bi-racial/black guy.
Statistical tie.
Well... it shouldn't even be close. If America didn't still have a big element of closet racism McCain would be in the gutter.
Must be nice to know that, if you do win, it is because America is still racist and not because they want you to do the job.
Statistical tie.
Well... it shouldn't even be close. If America didn't still have a big element of closet racism McCain would be in the gutter.
Must be nice to know that, if you do win, it is because America is still racist and not because they want you to do the job.
It's going to be close...
The repeated playing of the race card is hurting, not helping, IMO.
QUOTE(NiteOwl @ Aug 18 2008, 10:00 AM)
Old, well-know, war hero fart... vs young, relatively unknown bi-racial/black guy.
Statistical tie.
Well... it shouldn't even be close. If America didn't still have a big element of closet racism McCain would be in the gutter.
Must be nice to know that, if you do win, it is because America is still racist and not because they want you to do the job.
Statistical tie.
Well... it shouldn't even be close. If America didn't still have a big element of closet racism McCain would be in the gutter.
Must be nice to know that, if you do win, it is because America is still racist and not because they want you to do the job.
I reject that. Obama MUST get out and speak clearly on issues and not nuances. He has already motivated, given hope and all that - now he has to be clear on his policies. He's brilliant talking from prepared speeches, and as RLA pointed, too - he struggles with these unscripted interviews. That's not because he isn't as good or better than McCain - he's having trouble translating that into words that your average voting citizen understands.
He's got the black vote by largest percentage ever seen - so that should even out with the idiots who want to vote by color.
He has to stop doing the longwinded Kerry (or as was mentioned, Carter'esque) answers and get to sharp clear and concise answers. You all think I'm hating on him, but I'm not. We kissed Kerry's arse and hardly every held him to task for the part he was supposed to do while all of us were beating our feet on the streets and opening up our pocketbooks.
Clear and concise on policies. Speak them loud and speak them often - Keep them on the economy (something he hasn't been doing near enough of) economy, economy, energy (gas prices not so high now) ... and pick a VP that has a good solid reputation for International affairs with high marks in diplomacy. Stop worrying so much about all this partisanship for right now and get on with winning the presidency.
If he doesn't do those things - he will lose, and it won't be any racist fault - it will be his fault for listening to Axelrod for too long.
When the convention is over - if he doesn't come out speaking crisp and clean on policy we are screwed.
QUOTE(Indianhead @ Aug 18 2008, 01:18 PM)
It's going to be close...
The repeated playing of the race card is hurting, not helping, IMO.
The repeated playing of the race card is hurting, not helping, IMO.
Repeated playing of what card?
Here is an interesting perspective for this White boy!
http://www.newsweek.com/id/151725
Much of America's political conversation is couched in code. And so it was that recently the McCain campaign accused Barack Obama of playing the "race card," two four-letter words that, taken together, trail a wealth of innuendo like a comet's tail.
Using the term "race card" as a pejorative is almost always meant to promulgate the big lie that takes hold everywhere from the workplace to the classroom: that black men and women commonly use race as a bludgeon and an excuse, and that they will always blame failures or disagreements on racism.
This is belied by objective reality. To hear tell, you would believe that the world is chockablock with minority lawyers, teachers, construction workers and police officers who spend all their time complaining about institutional racism, calling others out on offensive jokes and assumed stereotypes. But most of us encounter the opposite, the silence of people who learned a long time ago that to get along it's imperative to go along.
In part this is because they're carrying a load on their shoulders. When one of the white guys blows an account, the office line is that he's a loser. But when a black guy does it, it means that they—that's the all-purpose "they," sometimes used interchangeably with "those people"—don't seem to be able to close the deal. Same goes for women, which is one reason the Clinton-Obama rivalry got so pitched during the primaries. Our piece of the pie is small, and often there's only one fork. When someone like Senator McCain says he's opposed to quotas, it sounds like country-club code for "We liked the pie the old way."
It's been rumored that Senator Obama did not include his race on his application to Harvard Law School, but it's probable that at least a few of his classmates would have assumed that his place came to him because he was, in the words of Stephen L. Carter's book title, an affirmative-action baby. That's another weight that successful black Americans carry, the suspicion that they got to wherever they've gone because of special pleadings. Of course there is also affirmative action for well-to-do whites, from legacy college admissions to the old boys' club of hiring and connections. Somehow this is never thought to be the same.
The fallacy at the heart of most discussions of affirmative action is twofold: that it replaced a true meritocracy, and that it means promoting the second-rate. The meritocracy theory requires us to believe that for decades no women and no people of color were as qualified as white men, who essentially had every field locked up. Belief in the ascendancy of the second-rate requires us to demean the qualifications of countless writers, jurists, doctors, academics and other professionals who gained entry and then performed superlatively. Part of the tacit deal for most of them was not that they be as good as their lackluster white male counterparts, but as good as the best of them.
"As good as the best of them" might well have been Barack Obama's slogan as he rose to be editor of the Harvard Law Review, faculty member at the University of Chicago Law School, state representative and U.S. senator. It is easy to see all the ways in which his race could have played a part in his rapid rise, but not necessarily in the way his opponents might suggest. Being an outsider probably taught him how to work well in two worlds, the world of those who take their place of primacy for granted and the world of those who have no such place, or who have to fight for it twice as hard.
Much has been made by Senator McCain's supporters of his history as a survivor of a Viet Cong prison camp, of the broken bones and psychological onslaughts that he withstood for five long years. They argue that such an experience builds character. They should also take note of the challenges faced by a black man in America, challenges that have built Senator Obama's character. These may be harder to quantify than imprisonment and torture, but they are onerous in a different and inescapable way.
The McCain forces have accused the Democratic candidate of injecting race into the campaign. That's silly. The man is black. His candidacy is indivisible from that fact, given the history and pathology of this country. When Senator Obama said that he did not look like the guys on our currency and that his opponents were likely to portray him as Other, he was stating the obvious. Perhaps he was also pointing out that, despite efforts to maintain the status quo by generations of conservatives, this remains a nation so progressive that an American from a group once held as personal property could become president. The suggestion of something untoward was pandering to stereotypes and fear. Senator McCain was playing the Caucasian card.
Does that sound offensive? I suppose it is, just as offensive as styling the race card a pejorative. But any black man or woman in America has heard worse. If people make assumptions about you simply on the basis of your appearance all your life, assumptions ranging from criminality to sloth to unearned opportunity, it can make you bitter and hard and cynical. That none of those things is part of the Obama character means that he has turned his particular version of the race card into an ace and is using it to play with the full deck. That is not a deficit. It is an advantage.
indianhead- I will personally blame YOU and people that think those thoughts you do if it is stolen again
Won't you be happy when that happens? After all, that is what you want
to blab "I told you so" Because you said so yourself, your own words.
Funny thing is, like the song says, words get in the way.
Won't you be happy when that happens? After all, that is what you want
to blab "I told you so" Because you said so yourself, your own words.
Funny thing is, like the song says, words get in the way.
Graham, making ridiculous allegations (prospective ones at that!) against IH doesn't exactly seem to be eviscerating his arguments.
QUOTE(Indianhead @ Aug 18 2008, 01:18 PM)
It's going to be close...
The repeated playing of the race card is hurting, not helping, IMO.
The repeated playing of the race card is hurting, not helping, IMO.
I assume you mean hurting Obama...
I don't exactly see Obama as "playing the race card"... but it stands to reason, in any case, when you are a member of a minority it is not going to benefit you to remind the majority of that fact.
Obama has nothing to gain... and a lot to lose by playing race. He'll already have the bulk of the black vote.. but will have to fight for much of the white vote.
QUOTE(NiteOwl @ Aug 18 2008, 12:00 PM)
Old, well-know, war hero fart... vs young, relatively unknown bi-racial/black guy.
Statistical tie.
Well... it shouldn't even be close. If America didn't still have a big element of closet racism McCain would be in the gutter.
Must be nice to know that, if you do win, it is because America is still racist and not because they want you to do the job.
Statistical tie.
Well... it shouldn't even be close. If America didn't still have a big element of closet racism McCain would be in the gutter.
Must be nice to know that, if you do win, it is because America is still racist and not because they want you to do the job.
Racism won't have a thing to do with it unless Obama continues to try to use his race to win. Stuttering and stammering like Obama did at Saddleback is going to destroy the myth he's a great orator; damn, OBAMA SOUNDED AS BAD AS GEORGE BUSH speaking without a teleprompter!
The republicans are going to continue to hammer Obama on little to no experience and poor judgement in picking his fiends and associates.
more code words
nice try sandy
nice try sandy
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