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rla
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Aug 8 2008, 11:42 AM) *
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 8 2008, 12:36 PM) *
I've been saying Obama needs to pick a Reformer...I think Russ Feingold serves as an excellent protype.

I like Feingold myself, but what about him do you think makes him a model?

He consistently, more than most, supports constitutional democracy in the sense of
actively protecting it and also increasing the frequency and intensity of it. He favors the US relinquishing her claim to Empire and he is ready to go after corruption and incompetence in government...He is more immune to coercion from Israel...
veritas
QUOTE


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/11/t...221.html?page=2

Democratic Convention Theme Taken From Wes Clark's PAC

August 11, 2008
My colleague Sam Stein reported earlier today that Barack Obama's VP choice will speak on the veteran-themed third night of the Democratic convention. As he noted, top Obama officials immediately poured water on any speculation that this coincidence necessarily signals a VP with military experience.

But here's one more interesting connection that hints ever-so-slightly toward the selection of a veteran veep, submitted by a sharp reader.

According to USA Today, the theme for Wednesday, Aug. 27 is "Securing America's Future," which just also happens to be the name of Gen. Wesley Clark's political action committee. (The URL for its website is simply "SecuringAmerica.com," but FEC filings list the full name.)

For what it's worth, an aide to Gen. Clark could not restrain near-riotous laughter when asked if there was anything behind the connection.

"I don't think it's anything more than an interesting coincidence," the aide said in between convulsions. "It's just because his PAC was named so well!"

Still, it's not as though the party is randomly naming each day of the convention. The theme for Thursday, when Obama will speak, is the familiar-sounding "Change You Can Believe In."

See COMMENTS



from http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...ess=132x6622843
Frenchy
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 8 2008, 12:46 PM) *
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Aug 8 2008, 11:42 AM) *
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 8 2008, 12:36 PM) *
I've been saying Obama needs to pick a Reformer...I think Russ Feingold serves as an excellent protype.

I like Feingold myself, but what about him do you think makes him a model?

He consistently, more than most, supports constitutional democracy in the sense of
actively protecting it and also increasing the frequency and intensity of it. He favors the US relinquishing her claim to Empire and he is ready to go after corruption and incompetence in government...He is more immune to coercion from Israel...


LOL...Let me know how that turns out! smile.gif
graham4anything
I am predicting it 100% won't be John Edwards and McCain won't pick Larry Craig. So the list of definite NOPES who were DOPES has eliminated two.

I stick with Al Gore. Hope it is.

Kathleen Sebilius with Obama makes for a good team. I don't want a military person. That is what SOS, defense, homeland security is for.(Wish they would change that name Homeland sounds so Nazi and dictatorship...(btw why is Putin outfront on the new war thing? Didn't a succesor take his place?)
graham4anything
You know who would make a great choice, though I don't think anyone has thought of him

One of the truly great leaders this country has ever known, and beloved by almost all

JERRY BROWN, currently AG of California

who rumor has it is going to run for Gov. of California again if Dianne don't do it. (Jerry is allowed, because term limits came in years after he
left office, and is NOT retroactive.

Obama/Brown

GOD, IF ONLY JERRY WON IN 1992 and not the trash that happened after that...what a wonderful,wonderful,wonderful world it would be...
tazvil04
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 12 2008, 04:52 AM) *
I am predicting it 100% won't be John Edwards and McCain won't pick Larry Craig. So the list of definite NOPES who were DOPES has eliminated two.

I stick with Al Gore. Hope it is.

Kathleen Sebilius with Obama makes for a good team. I don't want a military person. That is what SOS, defense, homeland security is for.(Wish they would change that name Homeland sounds so Nazi and dictatorship...(btw why is Putin outfront on the new war thing? Didn't a succesor take his place?)


It will be Evan Bayh my friend.
graham4anything
No it won't
If Obama wanted a devil, may as well just pick Hillary. At least she has fans out there. There is not one person in the nation outside of his family that knows Evan Bayh. 25 years in office, and NOT ONE accomplishment.
tazvil04
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 12 2008, 12:38 PM) *
No it won't

If Obama wanted a devil, may as well just pick Hillary. At least she has fans out there. There is not one person in the nation outside of his family that knows Evan Bayh. 25 years in office, and NOT ONE accomplishment.


He balanced the budget in Indiana -- his tax cuts spurred economic growth...

I have posted his accompishments before...

November 10, 2006


TO: Interested Parties

FROM: Dan Pfeiffer, All America PAC Communications Director

RE: All America PAC Post-Election Report



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Moderate Heartland Democrats Gave Democrats Their Victory in 2006

The lesson of this election is clear – we won by turning the Red states of the Heartland Blue. Indiana, which has voted for the Republicans in 16 of the last 17 presidential elections, sent three new Democrats to Congress. This is not an accident. Evan Bayh has developed a formula for winning under the most difficult of circumstances. He is fiscally responsible, tough on national security, shares the values of middle class families, and values progress over partisanship.

The election results show that following the lead of Indiana and the Heartland is the best way to build a true Democratic Majority and capture the White House in 2008.

Of the 29 House seats that the Democrats picked up, 10 came from the Midwest.

And more than half (15) came from a region comprised of the Midwest and the Industrial Belt (Pennsylvania to the east through Kansas to the west) – a region culturally and economically similar to Indiana. Indeed, geographically, Indiana is at the epicenter of this region.

According to Pew Research, Democrats increased their vote total by 7 percent among Independents and 5 percent among Moderate voters from the 2004 House elections.

12 of the 29 (40%) House pick ups were from Red districts that Bush won in 2004.


All America PAC’s Efforts

While Bayh’s top political priority was electing Indiana Democrats, he also stumped for Democratic candidates across the country, particularly in Red States like Ohio, Kentucky, Nevada, and Arizona – and directly contributed more than $270,000 to over 350 Democratic candidates and Party committees this cycle.

Along with stumping for candidates all across the country - Bayh’s All America PAC trained and deployed 50 paid campaign staffers to crucial races in Indiana, Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, and South Carolina. These Camp Bayh staffers were victorious in 40 of the campaigns they worked on, including eight Congressional races.

As a former Governor, Bayh knows the importance of state legislatures and was committed to electing Democrats in state House and Senate races across the country. The Hotline reported earlier this week, “IA GOP sources credit staffers detailed to IA state leg races by Sen. Evan Bayh's All America PAC for the Dem victory in the state. Approx. 25 staffers paid by Bayh's PAC helped IA Dems work on those campaigns; Republicans had fewer than 10 paid staffs working on leg. Races.”

Along with the success in Iowa, Democrats took back the Indiana State House and the New Hampshire State House and Senate. According to Boston Globe political columnist James Pindell: “There’s no doubt that Evan Bayh can take some credit for the fact that Democrats in New Hampshire had an historic night,” Pindell told HPR. “He gave his time. He gave his money. He also allowed 15 staffers to share their resources for these races. The most important thing Evan Bayh can take away from the victories in New Hampshire is a more knowledgeable staff.”

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2008/2006/bayhacc06.html

Graham the governorship in Indiana is up for electon this year so if Bayh is a VP candidate he can help get himi elected and assure his seat stays a Democrtat..

There goes that argument...

For Bayh, Shot No. 3 at No. 2 Spot
Committee Seats,
Red-State Support
Complement Obama
By CHRISTOPHER COOPER and DOUGLAS BELKIN
August 6, 2008; Page A4

Officially, Barack Obama will deliver an energy-policy speech Wednesday to citizens in Elkhart, Ind. But the focus of the political chattering class will be on the man sitting shotgun at the event: Evan Bayh, the Indiana senator thought to be on the likely Democratic presidential nominee's short list of vice-presidential candidates.

The scion of a prominent Hoosier political family and a former two-term Democratic governor of a deep-red state, Sen. Bayh is viewed by many as an ideal complement to the Illinois senator, who has a charismatic stage presence but a short political résumé for a presidential candidate.

Understated in demeanor and rarely demonstrating a passion for showboat political issues, Sen. Bayh may lack flash. But he sits on the powerful Senate armed-services and intelligence committees, enjoys an easy rapport with Midwestern crossover conservatives and displays a fund-raising knack extending beyond his home constituency.

OpenSecrets.org, which tracks federal political donations, says Sen. Bayh has raised $10.9 million between 2003 and 2008, with 77% of his cash coming from out of state.

Sen. Bayh is also a known commodity. He was under consideration for the No. 2 job -- and presumably vetted for the position -- by the previous two Democratic presidential nominees, Al Gore and John Kerry. It was with Mr. Gore, one former Bayh aide said, that Sen. Bayh had his best shot of making the ticket.

FORUM

• Vote: Could a presidential candidate's choice of vice president swing your vote?

The connection to Mr. Gore -- and by extension, to the Clintons -- provides another potential benefit of an Obama-Bayh matchup. Sen. Bayh has ties to former President Bill Clinton from when the two were governors. He sits on the Senate Armed Services Committee with Sen. Hillary Clinton, whose bruising primary battle with Sen. Obama continues to evoke hard feelings among her supporters and threatens party unity.

"Sitting next to someone on a Senate committee has sparked more than a few deep friendships," said Anita Dunn, a political adviser for Sen. Obama who served as an adviser to Sen. Bayh during his Senate campaigns.

An early Obama adherent, Ms. Dunn said she wasn't surprised when Sen. Bayh allied himself with Sen. Clinton, whom he described as having "a spine of steel." During the Indiana primary, he offered his own staff to help put her over the top in her race against Sen. Obama, who had a huge ground staff and an advantage in Indiana districts around Chicago, where he is well-known. "There's a Democratic political machine in Indiana -- it's called Evan Bayh," Ms. Dunn said.

The Indiana Democratic Party was in shambles when Sen. Bayh sought and won his first statewide office, secretary of state, in 1987. His father, Birch Bayh, a liberal Democrat and former U.S. senator, had been out of office since losing a re-election bid in 1980. Backers see kismet in the fact that Birch Bayh's campaign slogan when he ran for president in 1976 was "Change We Can Believe In." That is also Sen. Obama's slogan.

Birch Bayh was a darling of liberals, having been the chief architect of the Equal Rights Amendment, which failed to muster enough support to get ratified, and the 26th Amendment, which extended voting rights to 18-year-olds. He also championed Title IX, landmark legislation that included forcing equal opportunity in school athletics for females.

Evan Bayh, by contrast, voted in favor of a failed amendment that would have banned flag-burning and legislation that would have kicked Russia out of the Group of Eight leading economic nations. What upset many liberals the most was his vote to authorize the Iraq invasion and his subsequent co-chairmanship, with likely Republican presidential nominee John McCain, of the Iraq Liberation Committee, a neoconservative group that pushed hard for war.

Sen. Bayh now says he regrets his early support of the Iraq war and has no recollection of the committee. "I don't remember any meetings, any conversations, any anything," Sen. Bayh said in a telephone interview Tuesday. "Obviously my name was linked to it, but other than that there's nothing that can be said."

Supporters note that his overall record hews closely to the Democratic line and sometimes goes beyond it, such as when he voted against the confirmation of conservative Supreme Court justices John Roberts and Samuel Alito.

Sen. Bayh made perhaps his biggest political impression as governor. He developed a reputation as a fiscal conservative, ushering through the biggest tax cut in recent state history and passing what he considers the signal legislation of his career: a bill that extends free tuition to grade-school students who pledge to stay out of trouble. The initiative passed over the objections of a Republican-dominated statehouse.


"He was a governor who tried to not ruffle feathers," said Murray Clark, chairman of Indiana's Republican Party. "It's helped him; he's made very few enemies."

What few political enemies Sen. Bayh does have cast him in terms that hark back to the latest Democratic vice president, Mr. Gore, often branded an automaton by detractors. Sen. Bayh's critics include Paul Helmke, a former mayor of Fort Wayne who ran unsuccessfully against him for a Senate seat in 1998.

"As a debater, I felt like I was in the 'Twilight Zone' show. You want to reach over and slit the arm to see if there's flesh and blood or just wires," said Mr. Helmke, who is now the president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "One of my big accomplishments was at one point [in the debate], he started to sweat."

Ms. Dunn, the current Obama adviser, dismisses such criticism. "Is it boring to win five times as a Democrat in a state that's overwhelmingly Republican?" Ms. Dunn asked. "Obviously, the people of Indiana think there's something exciting about him."

A person on Sen. Obama's staff has said no vice-presidential announcement will come Wednesday in Indiana. Sen. Obama has told reporters not to put too much stock in rumors about candidates.

Write to Christopher Cooper at christopher.cooper@wsj.com and Douglas Belkin at doug.belkin@wsj.com

tazvil04
Sounds like a big list to me -- maybe you should learn more about him...


Sen. Evan Bayh

U.S. Senator Evan Bayh came to Washington after serving two terms as Indiana 's governor, where he had built one of the strongest, most financially secure state economies in the nation. He brought with him a remarkable record of sound fiscal management and economic growth, having built a $1.6 billion surplus for Hoosiers without once raising taxes, and creating 375,000 new Hoosier jobs. The Fort Wayne Journal Gazette said Bayh's commitment to fiscally responsible tax cuts make him "one of the few voices of reason" in Washington.

Elected to his first Senate term in November of 1998, Senator Bayh has since established himself as a leading mainstream voice in the Senate, bringing with him important Hoosier values and common sense to work with legislators from both sides of the aisle to make progress on a wide range of issues important to all Americans.

Bayh's common sense approach is key to his success in the United States Senate. "Evan Bayh is staking out new political turf in Washington – and carving out his identity – by confronting the way things work in the tradition-bound U.S. Senate," wrote the Indianapolis Star. Bayh is a leader of the New Democrat movement and works hard to find ways to save important issues that are at risk of being held hostage by partisan politics. He is the Chairman of the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) and a member of the Senate Centrist Coalition. He also helped establish the New Democrat Coalition, a new and growing group of senators who are committed to sensible, bipartisan progress. Bayh also serves on the Board of Directors of the National Endowment for Democracy, a non-partisan group that works to promote and strengthen democratic institutions worldwide.



During his five years in the Senate, Bayh has made it a top priority to continue to fight to create good jobs with good wages for everyone willing to work hard and play by the rules. By working to secure investments for nano-technology research at Purdue, life sciences initiatives in Indianapolis and numerous other projects, Senator Bayh has laid a foundation for establishing the good jobs of tomorrow.



In Washington, Bayh has carried on the work on issues he emphasized as governor, seeking to protect and create new jobs, maintain fiscal responsibility, and ensure affordable health care. He has also worked to raise the performance of our nation's public schools, encourage responsible fatherhood, and provide tax relief for families struggling to afford the costs of college, retirement and long-term care of loved ones.



Bayh serves on six Senate committees: Armed Services; the Select Committee on Intelligence; Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs, on which he is the Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on International Trade and Finance; the Small Business Committee; Energy and Natural Resources; and the Special Committee on Aging.



Before his election to the Senate, Bayh served two terms as Governor of Indiana. Stressing fiscal responsibility, lower taxes, job creation and lean government, then-Governor Bayh's list of accomplishments are impressive: eight years without raising taxes; the greatest single tax cut; the largest budget surplus in state history; national leadership in moving people from welfare to work; more dollars for schools every year; high academic standards and new college opportunities; more than 375,000 new jobs; tougher laws; and improved environmental quality. In 1992, the Wall Street Journal wrote that "Mr. Bayh's record is one of a genuinely fiscally conservative Democrat."



Bayh was born in Shirkieville, Indiana. He attended Indiana University, where he graduated with honors in business economics in 1978, and the University of Virginia, where he received his law degree in 1981. After clerking for a federal court judge and entering private law practice in Indianapolis, he was elected Indiana's Secretary of State in 1986.



Of everything he has done, Senator Bayh says he is most proud of the responsibility he assumed in November of 1995, as the father of twin sons Beau and Nicholas – a joy he shares with his wife, Susan.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/evan-bayh
graham4anything
as said NOTHING at all

The guy is mediocre. He is one of 100. Not in the top 20
There are 80 others just like him
Cloned
You coldn't tell him and John Roberts apart

and both members of skull and bones and the secret societs and the bildergerg group
veritas
Don't miss minute 3:14 for Wes CLARK on McCain -
"...The truth is that, in national security terms, he's largely untested and untried. He's never been responsible for policy formulation. He's never had leadership in a crisis, or in anything larger than his own element on an aircraft carrier or in managing his own congessional staff. It's not clear that this is going to be the strong suit that he thinks it is. McCain's weakness is that he's always been for the use of force, force and more force. In my experience, the only time to use force is as a last resort. When he talks about throwing Russia out of the G8 and makes ditties out of bombing Iran, he betrays a disrespect for the Office of the Presidency."

QUOTE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdJUCU1UH2w
Republicans and military men on John McCain (and McCain's repetitive prediction of more wars)

Pat Buchanan -
'There is no doubt John McCain is going to be a war president. Can anybody see John McCain as sort of a peacetime Calvin Coolidge president? It's preposterous. His whole career has been wrapped up in the military, national security. He's in Putin's face. He's threatening the Iranians. We're gonna be in Iraq 100 years.'

'He will make Cheney look like Gandhi.'



from http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...ess=132x6626094
tazvil04
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 12 2008, 01:18 PM) *
as said NOTHING at all

The guy is mediocre. He is one of 100. Not in the top 20
There are 80 others just like him
Cloned
You coldn't tell him and John Roberts apart

and both members of skull and bones and the secret societs and the bildergerg group


Yeah, Kerry was a member of Skull and Bones in 1966 too...so who cares?

tazvil04
QUOTE(veritas @ Aug 13 2008, 05:46 AM) *
Don't miss minute 3:14 for Wes CLARK on McCain -
"...The truth is that, in national security terms, he's largely untested and untried. He's never been responsible for policy formulation. He's never had leadership in a crisis, or in anything larger than his own element on an aircraft carrier or in managing his own congessional staff. It's not clear that this is going to be the strong suit that he thinks it is. McCain's weakness is that he's always been for the use of force, force and more force. In my experience, the only time to use force is as a last resort. When he talks about throwing Russia out of the G8 and makes ditties out of bombing Iran, he betrays a disrespect for the Office of the Presidency."

QUOTE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdJUCU1UH2w
Republicans and military men on John McCain (and McCain's repetitive prediction of more wars)

Pat Buchanan -
'There is no doubt John McCain is going to be a war president. Can anybody see John McCain as sort of a peacetime Calvin Coolidge president? It's preposterous. His whole career has been wrapped up in the military, national security. He's in Putin's face. He's threatening the Iranians. We're gonna be in Iraq 100 years.'

'He will make Cheney look like Gandhi.'



from http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...ess=132x6626094


Powerful and sad stuff...
rla
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Aug 12 2008, 01:34 PM) *
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 12 2008, 04:52 AM) *
I am predicting it 100% won't be John Edwards and McCain won't pick Larry Craig. So the list of definite NOPES who were DOPES has eliminated two.

I stick with Al Gore. Hope it is.

Kathleen Sebilius with Obama makes for a good team. I don't want a military person. That is what SOS, defense, homeland security is for.(Wish they would change that name Homeland sounds so Nazi and dictatorship...(btw why is Putin outfront on the new war thing? Didn't a succesor take his place?)


It will be Evan Bayh my friend.

I have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomache that you may be right.
tazvil04
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 07:58 AM) *
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Aug 12 2008, 01:34 PM) *
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 12 2008, 04:52 AM) *
I am predicting it 100% won't be John Edwards and McCain won't pick Larry Craig. So the list of definite NOPES who were DOPES has eliminated two.

I stick with Al Gore. Hope it is.

Kathleen Sebilius with Obama makes for a good team. I don't want a military person. That is what SOS, defense, homeland security is for.(Wish they would change that name Homeland sounds so Nazi and dictatorship...(btw why is Putin outfront on the new war thing? Didn't a succesor take his place?)


It will be Evan Bayh my friend.

I have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomache that you may be right.


He's at the bottom of the ticket...

Hopefully, unlike Hillary Clinton --- Bayh will have no problem learning from Obama and be open to the process.

Hopefully, Obama will integrate Bayh into his presidency so that he can learn well. In learning from Obama, Bayh will recast himself in a manner more palatable to you and others in the Democratic party.

This is hopefully. If Bayh sticks to the status quo -- then he is unlikely to ever be president...

But my thinking is as I have said...

Obama wants two things at a minimum in his choice...unparalelled loyalty. Bauh must commit to being a part of the Obama Adminsitration and not the Obama/Bayh Administration. His every effort will be to supporting the president and his agenda -- particularly if something should happen to the President as with Lyndon Johnson.

Obama also will be choosing someone he believes is prepared to step into the presidency should he be unable to serve.

I also believe he will be choosing a person of good character.

He is much like Gore in his dry personality. He is not charismatic. However, I believe he is a good person. Certainly, he is ambitous, but I believe he is competent.

I hope he will have the sense of honesty that I believe Gore had as well.

So, please do not dismay. Trust Obama to know more about Bayh -- to see more in Bayh -- should he choose him than we do.
rla
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Aug 13 2008, 09:33 AM) *
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 07:58 AM) *
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Aug 12 2008, 01:34 PM) *
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 12 2008, 04:52 AM) *
I am predicting it 100% won't be John Edwards and McCain won't pick Larry Craig. So the list of definite NOPES who were DOPES has eliminated two.

I stick with Al Gore. Hope it is.

Kathleen Sebilius with Obama makes for a good team. I don't want a military person. That is what SOS, defense, homeland security is for.(Wish they would change that name Homeland sounds so Nazi and dictatorship...(btw why is Putin outfront on the new war thing? Didn't a succesor take his place?)


It will be Evan Bayh my friend.

I have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomache that you may be right.


He's at the bottom of the ticket...

Hopefully, unlike Hillary Clinton --- Bayh will have no problem learning from Obama and be open to the process.

Hopefully, Obama will integrate Bayh into his presidency so that he can learn well. In learning from Obama, Bayh will recast himself in a manner more palatable to you and others in the Democratic party.

This is hopefully. If Bayh sticks to the status quo -- then he is unlikely to ever be president...

But my thinking is as I have said...

Obama wants two things at a minimum in his choice...unparalelled loyalty. Bauh must commit to being a part of the Obama Adminsitration and not the Obama/Bayh Administration. His every effort will be to supporting the president and his agenda -- particularly if something should happen to the President as with Lyndon Johnson.

Obama also will be choosing someone he believes is prepared to step into the presidency should he be unable to serve.

I also believe he will be choosing a person of good character.

He is much like Gore in his dry personality. He is not charismatic. However, I believe he is a good person. Certainly, he is ambitous, but I believe he is competent.

I hope he will have the sense of honesty that I believe Gore had as well.

So, please do not dismay. Trust Obama to know more about Bayh -- to see more in Bayh -- should he choose him than we do.


To me it would be another indication of premature compromise. The more Obama compromises
before the election, the less likely he is to secure a big enough victory to overcome the cheating
and to be able to govern effectively.
Arneoker
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 10:46 AM) *
To me it would be another indication of premature compromise. The more Obama compromises
before the election, the less likely he is to secure a big enough victory to overcome the cheating
and to be able to govern effectively.

Why wouldn't Bayh be the most wonderful VP pick ever? And why is compromise likely to hurt Obama more than being stubborn?
graham4anything
Taz- are you going to benefit personally from Bayh being picked?

the dems will lose a senate seat, and why you would want that, I have no idea

(and I don't need the sing songy answers either).

It is a NET LOSS

Especially as Obama DON'T NEED BAY TO WIN IDAHO

But winning virginia and NC will insure McCain can NOT win without those two states.


Obama is over 270 now without any of them anyhow so he is not needed.

the vp is only important should Obama leave office. If that happens you need a VP who would do EXACTLY what the voters who want Obama want Obama to do.

Bay has a track record of doing things Bushie wants. The Patriot Act, the Iraq war, and voting for the military system. He is not what WE want. If you want change.

He is a moldy oldie from another era. I personally would rather have Hillary than Bay because Hillary is out in the open. Bay is a trojan horse for the other side.
rla
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Aug 13 2008, 09:57 AM) *
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 10:46 AM) *
To me it would be another indication of premature compromise. The more Obama compromises
before the election, the less likely he is to secure a big enough victory to overcome the cheating
and to be able to govern effectively.

Why wouldn't Bayh be the most wonderful VP pick ever? And why is compromise likely to hurt Obama more than being stubborn?

Being stubborn is not always good or always bad. Compromise is not always good or always
bad. In the political realm, especially in the US system, more so than in a system like the UK,
our fault more often lies in Premature Compromise. The public, too often is not provided a
clear choice. Negotiation, which is necessarilly involved in Legislation, is settled behind closed doors
by the deal makers and presented to the House and Senate as a compromise. Too often, the
actual compromise ends up benefiting only the deal makers--not the public (common good). I
take Obama to mean by such expressions as, "Changing how things are done in Washington," to
be a promise to change this. Choosing Bayh would be an indication that this is not his intent. I
hope that electing Obama will accomplish more than a slightly improvement in the Tryany of the
Middle. The promise is a change in the direction the Country is moving in.
graham4anything
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 11:31 AM) *
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Aug 13 2008, 09:57 AM) *
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 10:46 AM) *
To me it would be another indication of premature compromise. The more Obama compromises
before the election, the less likely he is to secure a big enough victory to overcome the cheating
and to be able to govern effectively.

Why wouldn't Bayh be the most wonderful VP pick ever? And why is compromise likely to hurt Obama more than being stubborn?

Being stubborn is not always good or always bad. Compromise is not always good or always
bad. In the political realm, especially in the US system, more so than in a system like the UK,
our fault more often lies in Premature Compromise. The public, too often is not provided a
clear choice. Negotiation, which is necessarilly involved in Legislation, is settled behind closed doors
by the deal makers and presented to the House and Senate as a compromise. Too often, the
actual compromise ends up benefiting only the deal makers--not the public (common good). I
take Obama to mean by such expressions as, "Changing how things are done in Washington," to
be a promise to change this. Choosing Bayh would be an indication that this is not his intent. I
hope that electing Obama will accomplish more than a slightly improvement in the Tryany of the
Middle. The promise is a change in the direction the Country is moving in.



these bayh fanatics don't admit one simple truth
there are 100 other boring people like him who would bring in the same exact thing he could, without losing a senate seat, or compromising to Bush

I want something different. Kathleen Sebilius would help bring in Kansas possibly and some hope of SD and ND (so would Daschle)

Bayh offers nothing that Obama can't win himself. Obama is already leading in Idaho. And Idaho has a republican governor who is going to win again.
tazvil04
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 08:46 AM) *
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Aug 13 2008, 09:33 AM) *
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 07:58 AM) *
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Aug 12 2008, 01:34 PM) *
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 12 2008, 04:52 AM) *
I am predicting it 100% won't be John Edwards and McCain won't pick Larry Craig. So the list of definite NOPES who were DOPES has eliminated two.

I stick with Al Gore. Hope it is.

Kathleen Sebilius with Obama makes for a good team. I don't want a military person. That is what SOS, defense, homeland security is for.(Wish they would change that name Homeland sounds so Nazi and dictatorship...(btw why is Putin outfront on the new war thing? Didn't a succesor take his place?)


It will be Evan Bayh my friend.

I have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomache that you may be right.


He's at the bottom of the ticket...

Hopefully, unlike Hillary Clinton --- Bayh will have no problem learning from Obama and be open to the process.

Hopefully, Obama will integrate Bayh into his presidency so that he can learn well. In learning from Obama, Bayh will recast himself in a manner more palatable to you and others in the Democratic party.

This is hopefully. If Bayh sticks to the status quo -- then he is unlikely to ever be president...

But my thinking is as I have said...

Obama wants two things at a minimum in his choice...unparalelled loyalty. Bauh must commit to being a part of the Obama Adminsitration and not the Obama/Bayh Administration. His every effort will be to supporting the president and his agenda -- particularly if something should happen to the President as with Lyndon Johnson.

Obama also will be choosing someone he believes is prepared to step into the presidency should he be unable to serve.

I also believe he will be choosing a person of good character.

He is much like Gore in his dry personality. He is not charismatic. However, I believe he is a good person. Certainly, he is ambitous, but I believe he is competent.

I hope he will have the sense of honesty that I believe Gore had as well.

So, please do not dismay. Trust Obama to know more about Bayh -- to see more in Bayh -- should he choose him than we do.


To me it would be another indication of premature compromise. The more Obama compromises
before the election, the less likely he is to secure a big enough victory to overcome the cheating
and to be able to govern effectively.


Premature compromise?

Do you now who Barack Obama is?

He is a center of the road kind of guy. Didn't you know that was the candidate you were getting when you voted for him?

He is not a liberal candidate.

The only people who call him a liberal are Hillary Clinton, the GOP, and the conservative National Law Journal.

Guess what, they are doing it to score political points and promote their own agendas --- this is not an honest assessment.

Barack Obama and Evan Bayh have more in common than Barack Obama and Dennis Kucinich --- but for some reason you folks are in lalala land thinking Barack is some liberal messiah.

He isn't.

He is Fast Eddie Obama.

He is a shrewd Chicago politician and not a liberal one.

I have been urging you to wake up to this reality for some time now, but noone seems to listen.
graham4anything

evan bayh is to the RIGHT of Joe Lieberman

I would rather have Hillary than Evan. Evan is WRONG for now.
tazvil04
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 13 2008, 10:35 AM) *
evan bayh is to the RIGHT of Joe Lieberman

I would rather have Hillary than Evan. Evan is WRONG for now.


Well, we cannot always have what we want -- you wanted Barack Obama --- Evan does not come with the Bill baggage...or the Cliton baggage...

rla
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Aug 13 2008, 11:27 AM) *
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 08:46 AM) *
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Aug 13 2008, 09:33 AM) *
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 07:58 AM) *
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Aug 12 2008, 01:34 PM) *
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 12 2008, 04:52 AM) *
I am predicting it 100% won't be John Edwards and McCain won't pick Larry Craig. So the list of definite NOPES who were DOPES has eliminated two.

I stick with Al Gore. Hope it is.

Kathleen Sebilius with Obama makes for a good team. I don't want a military person. That is what SOS, defense, homeland security is for.(Wish they would change that name Homeland sounds so Nazi and dictatorship...(btw why is Putin outfront on the new war thing? Didn't a succesor take his place?)


It will be Evan Bayh my friend.

I have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomache that you may be right.


He's at the bottom of the ticket...

Hopefully, unlike Hillary Clinton --- Bayh will have no problem learning from Obama and be open to the process.

Hopefully, Obama will integrate Bayh into his presidency so that he can learn well. In learning from Obama, Bayh will recast himself in a manner more palatable to you and others in the Democratic party.

This is hopefully. If Bayh sticks to the status quo -- then he is unlikely to ever be president...

But my thinking is as I have said...

Obama wants two things at a minimum in his choice...unparalelled loyalty. Bauh must commit to being a part of the Obama Adminsitration and not the Obama/Bayh Administration. His every effort will be to supporting the president and his agenda -- particularly if something should happen to the President as with Lyndon Johnson.

Obama also will be choosing someone he believes is prepared to step into the presidency should he be unable to serve.

I also believe he will be choosing a person of good character.

He is much like Gore in his dry personality. He is not charismatic. However, I believe he is a good person. Certainly, he is ambitous, but I believe he is competent.

I hope he will have the sense of honesty that I believe Gore had as well.

So, please do not dismay. Trust Obama to know more about Bayh -- to see more in Bayh -- should he choose him than we do.


To me it would be another indication of premature compromise. The more Obama compromises
before the election, the less likely he is to secure a big enough victory to overcome the cheating
and to be able to govern effectively.


Premature compromise?

Do you now who Barack Obama is?

He is a center of the road kind of guy. Didn't you know that was the candidate you were getting when you voted for him?

He is not a liberal candidate.

The only people who call him a liberal are Hillary Clinton, the GOP, and the conservative National Law Journal.

Guess what, they are doing it to score political points and promote their own agendas --- this is not an honest assessment.

Barack Obama and Evan Bayh have more in common than Barack Obama and Dennis Kucinich --- but for some reason you folks are in lalala land thinking Barack is some liberal messiah.

He isn't.

He is Fast Eddie Obama.

He is a shrewd Chicago politician and not a liberal one.

I have been urging you to wake up to this reality for some time now, but noone seems to listen.

I agree that Obama is not as liberated from traditional sources of authority nor as committed to the
common good as Kucinich. He is, however, considerable more so than Bayh. Obama is a much more effective messenger than either, hense he is more likely to deliver at least half a loaf. If he picks Bayh, he hes already given up half a loaf so the most he could hope to deliver at the goal post is 1/4 loaf.
graham4anything
so Taz's true colors are finally coming out

He is showing himself to be a Hillaryite and another anti-Obamaist

Using rightwing words above.

Glad he came out and showed us...

no longer do we need to argue, because that point of view is Rush's point of view...all Clinton all the time...

are you sure you aren't James on the Gore board, taz? The two of you could be twins.
tazvil04
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 13 2008, 11:08 AM) *
so Taz's true colors are finally coming out

He is showing himself to be a Hillaryite and another anti-Obamaist

Using rightwing words above.

Glad he came out and showed us...

no longer do we need to argue, because that point of view is Rush's point of view...all Clinton all the time...

are you sure you aren't James on the Gore board, taz? The two of you could be twins.


Really.

Did you read what I wrote?

Do you know who Barack Obama is?

Have you been paying attention at all?

It really does not seem like it.

Rofl2.gif

My wife would love to hear you call me a Clintonite. That would make her laugh.

The Clintons have referred to Obama as a liberal, just like the GOP and the National Law Journal.

I do not now how pointing this out puts me on the Clinton bandwagon, but then I have not always understood your logic Graham.

Obama is not a left wing liberal.

He never has been He never will be. He has always been middle of the road. And his campaign has been about compromise. It just has taken much of his supporters who have been projecting their own beliefs on him longer than it should have to wake up to this reality.

Obama is a shrewd politcian. His supporters and opponents will both tell you that. You do not defeat the Clintons by being naive.

Evan Bayh and Barack Obama are a good team. You do not like it because it spoils your mantra to bury the DLC. BUt as I have been telling you for over a year now -- Obama is closer to the DLC than he is to the left wing of the party where Hillary, the GOP and the National Law Journal have tried to put him...

This is reality...

You can call me any name in the book ---- a traitor --- whatever --- but that will not change who Barack Obama is.

As for Rush and his mini-Rush --- Hannity they are on Hillary's bandwagon all the way suggesting that he is a liberal...

I am not -- so I do not know how you can compare me to them...

I think Graham may be running his own operaiton KAOS... laugh.gif
Arneoker
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 13 2008, 01:08 PM) *
so Taz's true colors are finally coming out

He is showing himself to be a Hillaryite and another anti-Obamaist

Using rightwing words above.

Glad he came out and showed us...

no longer do we need to argue, because that point of view is Rush's point of view...all Clinton all the time...

are you sure you aren't James on the Gore board, taz? The two of you could be twins.

Your mention of Rush is so appropriate here.

Indeed your argument here, with its blatant distortions and ad hominen attacks, very much resembles his standard fare.

No need to argue, because Rush...er, I'm sorry...you are right.
Arneoker
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 11:31 AM) *
Being stubborn is not always good or always bad. Compromise is not always good or always
bad. In the political realm, especially in the US system, more so than in a system like the UK,
our fault more often lies in Premature Compromise. The public, too often is not provided a
clear choice. Negotiation, which is necessarilly involved in Legislation, is settled behind closed doors
by the deal makers and presented to the House and Senate as a compromise. Too often, the
actual compromise ends up benefiting only the deal makers--not the public (common good). I
take Obama to mean by such expressions as, "Changing how things are done in Washington," to
be a promise to change this. Choosing Bayh would be an indication that this is not his intent. I
hope that electing Obama will accomplish more than a slightly improvement in the Tryany of the
Middle. The promise is a change in the direction the Country is moving in.

You always rail agains the "Tyranny of the Middle". That seems about as useful as railing against bad days.

Why not work to change the political dynamics so that the "Tryanny of the Middle" yields better results?
tazvil04
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Aug 13 2008, 12:16 PM) *
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 11:31 AM) *
Being stubborn is not always good or always bad. Compromise is not always good or always
bad. In the political realm, especially in the US system, more so than in a system like the UK,
our fault more often lies in Premature Compromise. The public, too often is not provided a
clear choice. Negotiation, which is necessarilly involved in Legislation, is settled behind closed doors
by the deal makers and presented to the House and Senate as a compromise. Too often, the
actual compromise ends up benefiting only the deal makers--not the public (common good). I
take Obama to mean by such expressions as, "Changing how things are done in Washington," to
be a promise to change this. Choosing Bayh would be an indication that this is not his intent. I
hope that electing Obama will accomplish more than a slightly improvement in the Tryany of the
Middle. The promise is a change in the direction the Country is moving in.

You always rail agains the "Tyranny of the Middle". That seems about as useful as railing against bad days.

Why not work to change the political dynamics so that the "Tryanny of the Middle" yields better results?


Because to do so would be a middle of the road solution? laugh.gif

Obama needs someone to help him get things done in Washington. How about a veteran Washington politician who also has the perspective of being a state CEO?

If it were Warner or Kaine or Kerry or Webb you might be off the wall in support.

Well guess what --- these are middle of the road guys too.

Webb is a former R. And you do not get elected in Va being a left winger...
rla
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Aug 13 2008, 01:24 PM) *
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Aug 13 2008, 12:16 PM) *
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 11:31 AM) *
Being stubborn is not always good or always bad. Compromise is not always good or always
bad. In the political realm, especially in the US system, more so than in a system like the UK,
our fault more often lies in Premature Compromise. The public, too often is not provided a
clear choice. Negotiation, which is necessarilly involved in Legislation, is settled behind closed doors
by the deal makers and presented to the House and Senate as a compromise. Too often, the
actual compromise ends up benefiting only the deal makers--not the public (common good). I
take Obama to mean by such expressions as, "Changing how things are done in Washington," to
be a promise to change this. Choosing Bayh would be an indication that this is not his intent. I
hope that electing Obama will accomplish more than a slightly improvement in the Tryany of the
Middle. The promise is a change in the direction the Country is moving in.

You always rail agains the "Tyranny of the Middle". That seems about as useful as railing against bad days.

Why not work to change the political dynamics so that the "Tryanny of the Middle" yields better results?


Because to do so would be a middle of the road solution? laugh.gif

Obama needs someone to help him get things done in Washington. How about a veteran Washington politician who also has the perspective of being a state CEO?

If it were Warner or Kaine or Kerry or Webb you might be off the wall in support.

Well guess what --- these are middle of the road guys too.

Webb is a former R. And you do not get elected in Va being a left winger...

I don't know Warner. My objections to Kaine and Webb are as strong as my objection to Bayh but
for different reasons. I see some down side to selecting Kerry. I prefer him over the other three.
graham4anything
I would rather Chuck Hagel get picked

a to the left republican in his war views, over a to the right democrat at least has the arrow pointing in the correct direction

Evan Bayh is further to the right than Joe Lieberman, and has sided with Bush more than all but 9 other democrats
Terra
I don't think he'll choose anyone that would cause a loss of a Dem in the Senate. Even though there was a slight rumble over a statement that was made - I'm thinking he'll choose Wes Clark.

tazvil04
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 12:33 PM) *
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Aug 13 2008, 01:24 PM) *
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Aug 13 2008, 12:16 PM) *
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 11:31 AM) *
Being stubborn is not always good or always bad. Compromise is not always good or always
bad. In the political realm, especially in the US system, more so than in a system like the UK,
our fault more often lies in Premature Compromise. The public, too often is not provided a
clear choice. Negotiation, which is necessarilly involved in Legislation, is settled behind closed doors
by the deal makers and presented to the House and Senate as a compromise. Too often, the
actual compromise ends up benefiting only the deal makers--not the public (common good). I
take Obama to mean by such expressions as, "Changing how things are done in Washington," to
be a promise to change this. Choosing Bayh would be an indication that this is not his intent. I
hope that electing Obama will accomplish more than a slightly improvement in the Tryany of the
Middle. The promise is a change in the direction the Country is moving in.

You always rail agains the "Tyranny of the Middle". That seems about as useful as railing against bad days.

Why not work to change the political dynamics so that the "Tryanny of the Middle" yields better results?


Because to do so would be a middle of the road solution? laugh.gif

Obama needs someone to help him get things done in Washington. How about a veteran Washington politician who also has the perspective of being a state CEO?

If it were Warner or Kaine or Kerry or Webb you might be off the wall in support.

Well guess what --- these are middle of the road guys too.

Webb is a former R. And you do not get elected in Va being a left winger...

I don't know Warner. My objections to Kaine and Webb are as strong as my objection to Bayh but
for different reasons. I see some down side to selecting Kerry. I prefer him over the other three.


Are there any persons Obama has interviewed which you find acceoptabel besides Kerry?

How about Chuck Hagel or Jack Reed?
tazvil04
QUOTE(Terra @ Aug 13 2008, 01:28 PM) *
I don't think he'll choose anyone that would cause a loss of a Dem in the Senate. Even though there was a slight rumble over a statement that was made - I'm thinking he'll choose Wes Clark.


I would support Clark...

Bayh's seat might not be lost -- why? the Dem's gubernatorial seat is up for a vote in IN and with Bayh at the top of the ticket the Dems would be likely to win in Indiana with all the support Obama and Bayh would bring out...
Terra
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Aug 13 2008, 12:31 PM) *
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 12:33 PM) *
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Aug 13 2008, 01:24 PM) *
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Aug 13 2008, 12:16 PM) *
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 11:31 AM) *
Being stubborn is not always good or always bad. Compromise is not always good or always
bad. In the political realm, especially in the US system, more so than in a system like the UK,
our fault more often lies in Premature Compromise. The public, too often is not provided a
clear choice. Negotiation, which is necessarilly involved in Legislation, is settled behind closed doors
by the deal makers and presented to the House and Senate as a compromise. Too often, the
actual compromise ends up benefiting only the deal makers--not the public (common good). I
take Obama to mean by such expressions as, "Changing how things are done in Washington," to
be a promise to change this. Choosing Bayh would be an indication that this is not his intent. I
hope that electing Obama will accomplish more than a slightly improvement in the Tryany of the
Middle. The promise is a change in the direction the Country is moving in.

You always rail agains the "Tyranny of the Middle". That seems about as useful as railing against bad days.

Why not work to change the political dynamics so that the "Tryanny of the Middle" yields better results?


Because to do so would be a middle of the road solution? laugh.gif

Obama needs someone to help him get things done in Washington. How about a veteran Washington politician who also has the perspective of being a state CEO?

If it were Warner or Kaine or Kerry or Webb you might be off the wall in support.

Well guess what --- these are middle of the road guys too.

Webb is a former R. And you do not get elected in Va being a left winger...

I don't know Warner. My objections to Kaine and Webb are as strong as my objection to Bayh but
for different reasons. I see some down side to selecting Kerry. I prefer him over the other three.


Are there any persons Obama has interviewed which you find acceoptabel besides Kerry?

How about Chuck Hagel or Jack Reed?


Obama would never pick Kerry, nononono... he's smarter than that, at least I hope so.

tazvil04
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 13 2008, 12:34 PM) *
I would rather Chuck Hagel get picked

a to the left republican in his war views, over a to the right democrat at least has the arrow pointing in the correct direction

Evan Bayh is further to the right than Joe Lieberman, and has sided with Bush more than all but 9 other democrats


Graham hates the idea of a candidate who shows any independence at all from the party line laugh.gif

...like Obama did in supporting Condoleezza Rice, Alberto Gonzales, class action lawsuit reform, the wiretapping surveillance bill -- etc.



graham4anything
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Aug 13 2008, 03:32 PM) *
QUOTE(Terra @ Aug 13 2008, 01:28 PM) *
I don't think he'll choose anyone that would cause a loss of a Dem in the Senate. Even though there was a slight rumble over a statement that was made - I'm thinking he'll choose Wes Clark.


I would support Clark...

Bayh's seat might not be lost -- why? the Dem's gubernatorial seat is up for a vote in IN and with Bayh at the top of the ticket the Dems would be likely to win in Indiana with all the support Obama and Bayh would bring out...



he is losing and the incumenbet will win

you do not have any stats to proove your story

Whereas Obama is ALREADY leading in Indiana and does not need Bayh, nor need Indiana to win

He is over 270 by more than Indiana's votes.

If you want a governor from that region, there is Vilsack.
rla
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Aug 13 2008, 02:31 PM) *
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 12:33 PM) *
QUOTE(tazvil04 @ Aug 13 2008, 01:24 PM) *
QUOTE(Arneoker @ Aug 13 2008, 12:16 PM) *
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 11:31 AM) *
Being stubborn is not always good or always bad. Compromise is not always good or always
bad. In the political realm, especially in the US system, more so than in a system like the UK,
our fault more often lies in Premature Compromise. The public, too often is not provided a
clear choice. Negotiation, which is necessarilly involved in Legislation, is settled behind closed doors
by the deal makers and presented to the House and Senate as a compromise. Too often, the
actual compromise ends up benefiting only the deal makers--not the public (common good). I
take Obama to mean by such expressions as, "Changing how things are done in Washington," to
be a promise to change this. Choosing Bayh would be an indication that this is not his intent. I
hope that electing Obama will accomplish more than a slightly improvement in the Tryany of the
Middle. The promise is a change in the direction the Country is moving in.

You always rail agains the "Tyranny of the Middle". That seems about as useful as railing against bad days.

Why not work to change the political dynamics so that the "Tryanny of the Middle" yields better results?


Because to do so would be a middle of the road solution? laugh.gif

Obama needs someone to help him get things done in Washington. How about a veteran Washington politician who also has the perspective of being a state CEO?

If it were Warner or Kaine or Kerry or Webb you might be off the wall in support.

Well guess what --- these are middle of the road guys too.

Webb is a former R. And you do not get elected in Va being a left winger...

I don't know Warner. My objections to Kaine and Webb are as strong as my objection to Bayh but
for different reasons. I see some down side to selecting Kerry. I prefer him over the other three.


Are there any persons Obama has interviewed which you find acceoptabel besides Kerry?

How about Chuck Hagel or Jack Reed?

I'm not especially excited by either of them but I don't have any good reason to appose them.
rla
Is Obama a left wing Liberal or a two wings Liberal or no liberal at all?
bigtom
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 02:46 PM) *
Is Obama a left wing Liberal or a two wings Liberal or no liberal at all?




IMHO he is slightly to the left...
and he is NOT the Antichrist!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=urMlVn1ZwDg
He might be IRISH?!?! Rofl2.gif

rla
QUOTE(bigtom @ Aug 13 2008, 03:10 PM) *
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 02:46 PM) *
Is Obama a left wing Liberal or a two wings Liberal or no liberal at all?




IMHO he is slightly to the left...
and he is NOT the Antichrist!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=urMlVn1ZwDg
He might be IRISH?!?! Rofl2.gif

I'm hoping that he has two wings and when an empass is reached, he will be able to fly up to
a more abstract and general level of analysis, where apparent opposites may be integrated and synthesized into an unexpected solution.
bigtom
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 03:16 PM) *
QUOTE(bigtom @ Aug 13 2008, 03:10 PM) *
QUOTE(rla @ Aug 13 2008, 02:46 PM) *
Is Obama a left wing Liberal or a two wings Liberal or no liberal at all?




IMHO he is slightly to the left...
and he is NOT the Antichrist!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=urMlVn1ZwDg
He might be IRISH?!?! Rofl2.gif

I'm hoping that he has two wings and when an empass is reached, he will be able to fly up to
a more abstract and general level of analysis, where apparent opposites may be integrated and synthesized into an unexpected solution.



Well I am just hoping that he beats McCain...
graham4anything
here reason #26,234 why it can't be Bayh

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb55...02/ai_n21816742
CLI Welcomes Sen. Bayh; Adds to Bipartisan Consensus
U.S. Newswire, February, 2003


WASHINGTON, Feb. 14 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The Committee for the Liberation of Iraq (CLI) is pleased to welcome Senator Evan Bayh (D- Ind.) as an Honorary Co-Chairman. Bayh becomes the third U.S. Senator to join the committee after Senators Joe Lieberman (D-Conn.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) announced their participation on Jan. 28.

"To remove weapons of mass destruction, we must remove the regime of Saddam Hussein," said Bayh. "To think anything else is to delude ourselves." Senator Bayh was a leading sponsor of the congressional resolution authorizing the use of military ...

Read the rest of this article with a Free Trial at HighBeam Research.
rla
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Aug 13 2008, 05:16 PM) *
here reason #26,234 why it can't be Bayh

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb55...02/ai_n21816742
CLI Welcomes Sen. Bayh; Adds to Bipartisan Consensus
U.S. Newswire, February, 2003


WASHINGTON, Feb. 14 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The Committee for the Liberation of Iraq (CLI) is pleased to welcome Senator Evan Bayh (D- Ind.) as an Honorary Co-Chairman. Bayh becomes the third U.S. Senator to join the committee after Senators Joe Lieberman (D-Conn.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) announced their participation on Jan. 28.

"To remove weapons of mass destruction, we must remove the regime of Saddam Hussein," said Bayh. "To think anything else is to delude ourselves." Senator Bayh was a leading sponsor of the congressional resolution authorizing the use of military ...

Read the rest of this article with a Free Trial at HighBeam Research.

Keep up the good work, g4a.
dggfwtx
With Warner being announced as the keynote, that would appear to eliminate Kaine. That would leave Bayh, Biden and Sebelius as the apparent front-runners. Unless he picks a long shot.

Terra
QUOTE(dggfwtx @ Aug 13 2008, 08:42 PM) *
With Warner being announced as the keynote, that would appear to eliminate Kaine. That would leave Bayh, Biden and Sebelius as the apparent front-runners. Unless he picks a long shot.


Dgg.. my husbands reasoning for Nunn is that despite what is really true - and even according to the latest polls done today, people trust McCain more with foreign affairs. Since this Georgia-Russia conflict started McCain jumped up about 9 points.

Doesn't matter if it's true that he would be better - it's how the general public perceives the candidates. Nunn would bring a ton of that experience with him as VP which should help Obama in that department.

dggfwtx
Nunn wouldn't be a bad pick and he might help in a key state, GA. I would imagine he is considered on the "second tier" of potential picks, but I wouldn't rule him out. I don't think any of the so-called top three bring all *that* much to the table.
Beamer
QUOTE(dggfwtx @ Aug 13 2008, 08:42 PM) *
With Warner being announced as the keynote, that would appear to eliminate Kaine. That would leave Bayh, Biden and Sebelius as the apparent front-runners. Unless he picks a long shot.



That's my thinking as well. Picking Warner is an effort to appeal to Virginia. Picking Kaine as VP would be overkill.
graham4anything
Nunn would be better than Bayh, and would be a one termer most likely. Bob Graham would be better than Nunn but in the same vein I guess.

I don't see why Warner eliminates Kaine, actually, I think it makes Kaine more of a choice, not less.

Obama wins VA, McCain is elminated. There is no scenerio whatsoever for McCain to win if he loses VA, a state made for him. So double dipping VA
would make sense

AND- by picking Warner to run it shows Howard Dean wanting to get 60 in the Senate...in actuality, I think Warner as keynote eliminates Bayh, because
that is a minus one in the senate, and that just makes ZERO sense. (Though it doesn't mean Kaine is the one).

I think Sebilius is rising.No one seems to have come up with anything wrong with her as pick (except for the Clinton thing, which makes it a plus plus
for the progressives, who could use a bone)...also, Wes Clark is rising again, they are using Wes' pac name for the Wednesday name, and
Al Gore is zooming in the Rasmussen markets. (Someone said you have to bet 10Grand to win just 700)

What does it all mean? WTF knows and the clock ticks to I think t-10 or 11 days and counting til its announced.
graham4anything
QUOTE(Beamer @ Aug 13 2008, 11:59 PM) *
QUOTE(dggfwtx @ Aug 13 2008, 08:42 PM) *
With Warner being announced as the keynote, that would appear to eliminate Kaine. That would leave Bayh, Biden and Sebelius as the apparent front-runners. Unless he picks a long shot.



That's my thinking as well. Picking Warner is an effort to appeal to Virginia. Picking Kaine as VP would be overkill.



you don't wanna just "appeal" You wanna win

If Obama wins VA, McCain is eliminated. There is NO scenerio whatsoever that shows McCain can win without VA. (and plenty of scenerios to show Obama can win without VA, Ohio, Florida and 3 others).

Obama is already way over 270 wihtout any of those 3 (and can even theoretically lose PA too, though he is slaughtering McCain there).
(unless McCain picked pro-choice Tom what color alert is it Ridge).
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