I don't disagree with you.

No problem with ME not being perfect, but other people had better be!

Just had to say it for all the people who think that way but are too dishonest to say it (about 20-30% of the population according to studies I've read the results of).

remember what some of the people (who got canned from the Kerry board) who were Edwards fans said about him back in 2003-2004

So, what was lies, what was truth, who was correct, who was lying???

Seems like all of those people deserve an apology too.

Seems like anyone who put their trust, and (not me) put their $$$ into his campaign deserve a personal apology too.

I would really be curious to know the opinion of our old moderator/poster friend noretreat aka pmorlan on this...I really would.

Graham, one either cares about infidelity in a politician or they don't.

You seem to be saying, in some convoluted way, that we should care, should care to the point of indignation, but when all is said and done, not really care, that our concern is a complete fraud, but is somehow justified.

Graham knocks anyone who hasn't handled something the way he thinks he would handle a situation. I don't fault any woman or man for remaining in a marriage that has seen infidelity. I'm merely addressing what I think of the person who has committed the act of betrayal. Graham has to condemn the "victim" as well.

btw indianhead-

why only use democratic people

Ronald Reagan cheated on his first wife Jane Wyman and divorced her and married Nancy the stolenchina girl.
Why not give ole' Ronnie a shout out?

Okay...

Everyone who has had an extra-martial affair, a homosexual affair,
performed oral sex, anal sex, or lusted for someone in their heart...confess.

Graham...you may be clean on this one...so maybe you judge...and lynch.

Actually I think that him picking on Democrats was a nice touch, as it seemed designed to increase the discomfort level.

Bottom line is that he told the truth and made a good point.

No, I am questioning because John Edwards is proven to be a fraud...so what will come out next week?

I also question who got this story the evidence needed...someone slips the message to the head of the agency...
I know the papparazzi, and they just don't show up, without knowing where to show up in the first place

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

That is important issue- because it definitely can involve a number of important players in this election, especially Hillary Clinton.

Once again, may I remind you, Hillary (or one of her people) around the debate time intimated that a major scandal was brewing that will blow wide open...
shorlty after John Edwards quit the race...in a week that no one could figure out WHY that week.

This goes to the issue of blackmail (which is illegal and a crime)
and influence

IF Hillary did this, she is disqualified from any position whatsoever in office ever again, and should be impeached as NY Senator

What did Hillary Rodham Clinton know, and when did she know it?

Enquiring minds ought to find this out

If the trail can be led back...that she forced Edwards out under the guise of blowing his story public, we got us a scandal like no other...

Perry Mason where are you? This is harder to solve than an Agatha Christie mystery

More than one, details reserved for those with reason to know or who I want to get into that kind of conversation with (photos and statement of intent required).

more than one cad around...

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/2465

Carol McCain...the wife John McCain callously left behind.
Posted by madfloridian in General Discussion: Presidential
Fri Aug 08th 2008, 03:46 PM
I seldom write about the personal lives of anyone, even politicians.

But I despise duplicity in any form. I despise that the media is getting its jollies over John Edwards.

I just heard a spokesperson on MSNBC say how badly this will hurt the Democrats now. He was almost gloating. I despise stuff like that.

I despise that the media never mentions how John McCain left behind his wife who was crippled from an accident.

I admire her classy way of handling it. Kudos to her.

The wife John McCain callously left behind
It was in 1969 that Carol went to spend the Christmas holiday – her third without McCain – at her parents’ home. After dinner, she left to drop off some presents at a friend’s house.
It wasn’t until some hours later that she was discovered, alone and in terrible pain, next to the wreckage of her car. She had been hurled through the windscreen.

After her first series of life-saving operations, Carol was told she may never walk again, but when doctors said they would try to get word to McCain about her injuries, she refused, insisting: ‘He’s got enough problems, I don’t want to tell him.’

H. Ross Perot, a billionaire Texas businessman, future presidential candidate and advocate of prisoners of war, paid for her medical care.


It was a shock to John McCain when he was released in 1973 to see his wife.


When McCain – his hair turned prematurely white and his body reduced to little more than a skeleton – was released in March 1973, he told reporters he was overjoyed to see Carol again. But friends say privately he was ‘appalled’ by the change in her appearance. At first, though, he was kind, assuring her: ‘I don’t look so good myself. It’s fine.’

..."In 1979 – while still married to Carol – he met Cindy at a cocktail party in Hawaii. Over the next six months he pursued her, flying around the country to see her. Then he began to push to end his marriage. Carol and her children were devastated. ‘It was a complete surprise,’ says Nancy Reynolds, a former Reagan aide.

‘They never displayed any difficulties between themselves. I know the Reagans were quite shocked because they loved and respected both Carol and John.’

Another friend added: ‘Carol didn’t fight him. She felt her infirmity made her an impediment to him. She justified his actions because of all he had gone through. She used to say, “He just wants to make up for lost time.”’


No excuses for anyone, really, but let's talk about John McCain also.

He does not get a pass for leaving Carol for Cindy. Where's the media?

Oddly enough, in an article from June of this year...Carol McCain still adores her ex-husband.


Forgotten woman: But despite all her problems Carol McCain says she still adores her ex-husband

That comment is filled with class. Kudos to her.



Discuss (17 comments) | Recommend (9 votes)

Me too...probably different circumstances...but considered diviant by purists never the less.
(see photos and statement of intent attached).

(edit add: when asked, John McCain said: "I have no comment on that".)

So why do people do this when they know it will come out?

The third possible reason is just as devious as the other two

And even more disillusioning

Do they do this because indeed the entire system is stacked on all sides, fixed, and we are being played even worse than we ever thought we were being played

(i.e. ALL the players are just reading their scripts from day one??? male/female/spouse, etc???

Is everything a lie even moreso than anyone thought???

and when a diversion is needed someone is giving a new script?

Okay here we have Edwards's "mea culpa".

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08...fair/index.html?

“It is inadequate to say to the people who believed in me that I am sorry, as it is inadequate to say to the people who love me that I am sorry. In the course of several campaigns, I started to believe that I was special and became increasingly egocentric and narcissistic. If you want to beat me up - feel free. You cannot beat me up more than I have already beaten up myself. I have been stripped bare and will now work with everything I have to help my family and others who need my help.”

Well, I've beat up on him and even have his permission to do just that! Anyway, I feel for his wife and children. I'm done.

I agree with Jay here. The gall of someone to have this type of skeleton in his closet, and then cry out, "no fair!" when the dirty tabloid sussed it out. And then he stayed in the race for another month, before withdrawing, "for the good of the party."

As Tom said, hubris, indeed. (where have I heard that word before? )

And I have to back Graham on this one thing : one or two people really came down hard on us for even posting this story, when it broke.

It's news, whether it's borne out or not. In this case, it was.

Edwards says "will work to help others who need my help"
Sounds like a one of those phony religious faithhealers like Jimmy Swaggert

Sounds like he is still egocentric and narcissistic
Wonder how many speech writers were used to write this

Phony makes phony apology
Only thing he is mad is he got caught.

At least he has those hundreds of millions of dollars he got from his ambulence chasing days and working for the hedge fund corps.
he coulda been a contenda now just another deadfish in the cesspool

Jeeze...I guess femininity overrules psychology...
remind me not to visit a female psychologist.

and I think I am going to order a subscription to the National enquirer, instead of just read it in the supermarket
They deserve some bucks thrown their way.

If only the MSM would investigate and print stories they know are out there

This is the current page on the Cafferty File blog... looks kind of appropriate now...

If this is a joke, my friend, you have overshot your mark by about a mile. I'd tell you what you could kiss, but somehow know what you would respond.

And, Graham, I've said it before and I'll probably say it again: "Stay offa my side."

I wouldn't give the National Enquirer *too* much credit. Yeah, they get some things right. But they get a lot wrong, too. If you fling enough crap against the wall ........

I can't count on the stories about growing gold nuggets in citrus groves and having a UFO baby born with its brain outside the skull (looking a lot like thick oatmeal)?


I'M CRUSHED!

the national enquirer knows enough that they warranted getting bushtraxx'd around the time
the other Dem's got it

making fun of them is like Tim Mata Hari Russert making fun of kucinich during the debates

What is it about some macho men having to support and highfive every single person who
desecrates his marriage vows as if it were a badge of honor?

Especially when said wife is dying.

Bet elizabeth needs the stress of this at this time.

Having an affair isn't necessarily a political death sentence. Now, sure, it rules John out as VP material, but I don't see why it would necessarily rule him out for a position in an Obama administration.

As for why he may have had the affair .... I'm not going to throw stones. Everyone feels sorry for Elizabeth, but I can tell you from firsthand experience that it is not easy having a long-term chronically ill "spouse." The "well" partner hurts as well and has needs, too. Been there and done that myself.

What should I kiss? You know how I would respond?...how presumptious can we be?
Overshot my mark...analysis...I guess I'm just wrong...what should I think?

My biggest beef with the Enquirer is that they pay sources. That's a major violation of journalistic ethics and is a practice that hardly encourages objectivity.

Why, they do it of course to provide you with orgasmic delight Graham as you glory in making yourself judge and jury of not only the sinner but his wife..

Do the words sanctimonious hypocrite ring any bells with you ?


You condemn those you don't like and you slobber over those with whom you are enthralled who are even more despicably human. Right about now you deserve a good swift kick in the ass.

There is human tragedy here. Stop wallowing in it !!!!!

I have never been an Edwards fan but I despise the fact that there are those who think they have the divine right to judge others simply because it titillates and provides an opportunity to say "I told you so"

It must be so satisfying to have led a blame free life. Have you considered applying for sainthood? Or its equivalent in your faith ?

I think the exploitive nature of the editorial decisions would lead to the same abysmal results without paid sources, but there's no room to argue with your position on this.

Tabloid mentality has shifted public (and in many cases journalistic) opinion from private matters remaining private unless they directly impact the public to the prurient position of felling entitled to all private details about any public figure. Of course this is done with loud proclamations of outrage when it's a matter involving betrayal of a spouse with no mention of the fact that the public airing of the offense harms the spouse more than the betrayal itself (and in this case even the children).

He only believes in himself, why would he demote himself to sainthood when he's his deity and can speak worlds into being?

Gee CO, I don't feel any 'titillation" from Edward's affair. I think anyone has a right to pass judgement on the behavior of others....we do it all the time. It's not a matter of "a divine right"...it's news and we do have opinions about people's character issues particularly when they're running for public office.

No, it's trying to win an election

and not have it ruined by an egotistical liar

Who as of yesterday, was still a top tier candidate for VP
Elizabeth knew about this for 2 years, yet was above everyone and she too hid the fact

both of them are guilty of a major cover-up
How dare them!

Now more than ever, the world again cries out for Al Gore

Well, Graham, I imagine Elizabeth considers this to be a private matter...she didn't screw up (pardon the pun)...her husband did. Maybe she should have confessed his affair for the good of the country? You live in an alien world or something?

Yep, and I was one of them. I happen to believe that a person's private life has nothing to do with their public life. And I expected the same kind of maturity from you Peg. Politicians are people just like you and I. They have their faults. One of the reasons so many hesitate to become involved with politics today is because of exactly this sort of thing. In the past few decades it has become the norm to want every little detail which has no bearing on their abilities as politicians or leaders and as a result perhaps several excellent potential leaders have not thrown hats in the ring. Had these standards been in effect in the past FDR, JFK, LBJ , Ike, and lord knows how many others would never have been elected.

Next I expect they will also be expected to give statements as to how many times a day they relieve themselves.

I felt this way about Clinton and his Monica thing as well. It was none of our business but thanks to prevailing thought even elementary school children were educated as to oral sex on the evening newscasts. Pornography, courtesy of the national media and the self righteous who gloried in it..

I would love to see John Edwards as Attorney General.

Well put, CO. Stress is the precursor of so many medical ills, the least of which is strength. And strength is needed to battle cancer. To find that she knew about this in 2006 would bad enough, but for it to be slapped all over the media would equate to dumping a mountain of bricks on her.

My prayers are indeed with Elizabeth. Fortunately their younger children will likely be oblivious to all the media coverage but their older daughter --- well, Goc bless her as well.

As for John -- I could not care less what happens to him -- his political career is over. The resulting collateral damage and the havoc he has created for his loving family is unbelievable. The fact that he seems to be trying to excuse his timing of the affair by saying it occurred while Elizabeth was in remission is simply despicable.

May you pay the piper, John. May you pay the piper.

I wasn't directing that at you Amy. I know you are disgusted and with justification. My argument is that this doesn't belong in the media. Its between the man and his wife. It used to be that way. Did we suffer because of it ? No we did not. And families were not hurt in the process as they are today. Now, not only is there the personal pain and hurt, there's the public exposure and embarrassment for the innocent parties as the public dissects every minuscule detail of their personal tragedy. I just hate that so much. And one thing I know for certain, we are the poorer because it is now this way.

From http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...ess=389x3756842

if Bill Clinton quit, we would have had 10 years of the greatest peacetime prosperity in this countries history

Thanks Bill Clinton for lowering our standards and our standard of living.

A person running for president owes us the truth

If you stand before and LIE, you are a liar.
Therefore you are not qualified

The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth

We have been lied to now for 28 years.

Time for the truth and only the truth. It's not the sex. It's the lies, the coverup, the blackmail. Which is what this is. With lies as the standard, we get no impeachment.
Because all these people have something to hide, so they can't vote the correct way. So they act as they do.


silver- why in the world would you now want an admitted liar to be an attorney general? Thanks, but no thanks.
He should never have run in the first place, or if he did, he should have told us this before he entered the race, like the courageous act Gov. Patterson did, had Edwards done it that way,
maybe he would have been forgiven. But events took place in the primaries, and who knows what back issues had their hands forced by this.

Graham, human compassion costs us nothing.

The one most directly affected possesses that quality in abundance. Read her statement.

She has already suffered through this in 2006 and now she has to deal with it again. Yes, it is the fault of her husband but she is the one being hurt again. He will live with this always.

But hey !! the NE sold papers, the media has their story, his wife has the right of forgiving or not, everyone gets to judge , which I happen to believe is the right only of the Almighty, different strokes for different folks I guess, but do as you will. I've said what I believe. I'm done.

I have no problem with Edwards serving in the Cabinet. I don't know about AG, but he'd probably be a great HUD director, for one example. People don't always tell the whole truth about their sex lives for a variety of reasons. I think that's an unreasonably high standard to hold someone to.

like I believe this is the first time

and he didn't tell us about the baby

When's that coming? The week after he takes a cabinet post?

He so far has refused to take a paternity test.

And what was it he was doing with her in her hotel room? In the late,late hours?

Please, have some credibility here...

We now have Trent Lott, John mcCain, John Edwards, Newt Gingrich in the hall of shame of men who's wives were either serously hurt or dying that were cheated on.
For all we now know, Maybe John and Elizabeth's marriage was as real as Bill and Hillary's.

If nothing else, there was 2 years of lies to the media, the public and the arrogance to think they would get away with it...

and if what you say is true CO, then maybe this added stress caused Eliz. to have her recurrence.

and as I recall, where was Edwards' compassion for the common person when he was building his tens of millions of dollars McMansion?



Richard Nixon was more real than John Edwards ever was.

I had to read that twice just to make sure - because CO and I are in complete agreement.

In 1999, Edwards would have disagreed with you.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jfOq80s...sWTXAwD92EETI80

In 1999, when Edwards was a senator, he said of President Clinton and his affair with Monica Lewinsky:
"I think this president has shown a remarkable disrespect for his office, for the moral dimensions of leadership, for his friends, for his wife, for his precious daughter. It is breathtaking to me the level to which that disrespect has risen."

"Breathtaking....level of disrespect".....seems like an apt description.

Have you ever been judgmental about something then learned you have a weakness that could leave you vulnerable to the same failure?

In his case I believe he was following the tried and true pattern or being harshest regarding what he personally needed control on (why so many of the most homophobic preachers turn out to be gay), but the first explanation can't be ruled out and it's something most of us can relate to.

Private matters are private matters but they become public concerns and privacy is compromised when a person enters, by choice, the public arena.

Edwards affair may be private, but in making his choices he has displayed bad judgment in having this affair and, even worse, bad judgment in choosing to try to remain a candidate for the Presidency.

Sadly, had he become the Democratic nominee and this revelation came forward he would have handed the GOP the WH... and potentially other Congressional seats as well.

The affair may be private... but the lack of judgment is anything but.

thanks Terra for seeing I missed a line CO wrote

BLAMING THE MEDIA FOR TEACHING LITTLE GIRLS ALL ABOUT ORAL SEX???
IT WAS BILL CLINTON THE SLIME WHO DID THAT...
CO---How in God's name could you blame the messenger???

Bill said all he did to get out of the real crimes he committed...

Slime then, slime now.

Elizabeth is guilty of a cover-up. Just like Nixon was.

You know how many millions of books they sold based on their love for each other?
If I were one of the ones who bought any of their books, I would form together and sue them in a class-action lawsuit for 10s of millions of
dollars. Betcha they can find some ambulence chaser lawyer who will take the case.

I remember some of the people telling stories on the Kerry board, about how it was John Edwards won his cases, AND only taking cases
he thought he could score big on...dolls and stuff.

Fairy tale romance? Just another lie...

At least in Japan when this thing happens there is honor for betrayals.

A user.

Who's only regret is that he now got caught.

I think you're absolutely right on the mark. Very often we are the harshest critics of the weaknesses in others that we see in ourselves.